"Fuck You! Ima do what I want cause I'm free and I like my fancy hair I ain't cuttin' dat off."
That would have ruined Artanis' whole plan, I mean what would he have done? Would he have forcibly cut off his hair? Would he kill him? Neither of those options sound like freedom. Luckily Artanis conveniently wasn't put in that position cause everyone is so ready to obey him without question, kinda like how people obey a dictator. So the entire message I'm getting from this is not really about freedom but about how your leader always has your best interest in mind but your god is an asshole, it;s ok to be free from god but make sure to to what your president tells you if you want to live.
Everyone is just like, "Ah fuck our heritage, change is easy!" I just can't help but feel that Blizzard tried to hamfist a giant story with a big preachy messages into a small little campaign and it didn't work cause it doesn't feel realistic. I can't believe that an entire race would change so easy, and everyone is so agreeable they don't ask questions they act like servents when Artanis says cut off an appendage they obey without hesitation. Ironically this story is about freedom but in the end obeying your leader without question is what saves the day.
It's a good thing everything worked out so conveniently for Artanis... It's almost like some god (aka the Writer) had his fate all planned out neatly for him.
You forgot the power of the Khala. All the protoss who were just freed from Amons rage would be terrified of going back to that. So when they felt (via the Khala) the feelings Selendis has when she made the decision to actually cut her cords, it would pushed them to follow. As those who were with her and you see in the cinematic cut their cords, the feeling of the certainty of such a decision would roll through the Khala and convince the rest to follow through.
Also, change was NOT easy, they had to collectively go insane first, and such a traumatic experience can provide the force for change. You will notice that no one immediately cut their cords, they all hesitated, and only once Selendis cut hers, did anyone else follow through.
You forgot the power of the Khala. All the protoss who were just freed from Amons rage would be terrified of going back to that. So when they felt (via the Khala) the feelings Selendis has when she made the decision to actually cut her cords, it would pushed them to follow. As those who were with her and you see in the cinematic cut their cords, the feeling of the certainty of such a decision would roll through the Khala and convince the rest to follow through.
Also, change was NOT easy, they had to collectively go insane first, and such a traumatic experience can provide the force for change. You will notice that no one immediately cut their cords, they all hesitated, and only once Selendis cut hers, did anyone else follow through.
But there is also the idea that some Protoss might in fact want to side with Amon even to their own doom. I don't get the impression that Protoss are a race that fears death. Plenty of religious people are willing to do crazy things for their god even murder and die, even if they saw that Amon was evil they might follow their lord to their own destruction.
It's to bad Amon ain't that smart, he could have just tricked them into doing his bidding like he had done all along, but I guess he got bored and decided to go with a totally new aggressive approach.
It's played like it's general "Freedom". I guess I'll blame the writer for not communicating it in a more understandable way.
This is also not the first game to have this story. Final Fantasy 10 has pretty much the exact same story as Lotv. FF10 pulled it off aside from the ending going off the rails a bit. But here's the problem Starcraft is not Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy is a long ass game that can take it's time to take on big ideas and develop them properly. A starcraft campaign is too small to try to reform an entire race without leaving the audience to try to fill in all the plot holes themselves. There just isn't enough time to try to bite off such a giant preachy message. It also just feels weird in the Starcraft series, I mean, the entire Starcraft 2 story just reminds me of the Starwars Prequels which is not good. But Lotv's feels even more out of place, it's like it's trying to rewrite the entire Starcraft story.
Ironically I would say the story is really a metaphor for itself. The Xel'naga created the original Starcraft 1 story and it was awesome, then Blizzard (Aka Amon) came in and wanted to destroy that story completely. In the end the message is really trying to tell us to accept this new Starcraft 2 story and that changing the story is a good thing. But the problem is that it's just a piss poor story that I've seen before done in better ways.
But there is also the idea that some Protoss might in fact want to side
with Amon even to their own doom.
As long as Khala exists, no, they don't get that choice. The entire problem with the Khala is that it is not all that much better then the hive mind of the zerg. The hive mind is akin to robotic control, where the zerg did as they were told, and could not disobey. The protoss have arguably the far more insidious form of group control, peer pressure. Most people won't do $INSERTTERRIBLEACT, but if everyone else is doing it, they often go along. Now imagine that same peer pressure, and it is in your mind. So you could "choose" but ultimately the rest of the group can mentallly subjugate you into following. It gives the Protoss enomorous power and stability, but at the cost of being able to change, and when change comes, tends to be rather brutal.
If the Protoss was truly under Amons control it would be in the best interest of the controller Amon to secure his control over the Protoss and it is in that regard Amon had nothing.
So when all control is lost through the Khala what was Amon objective.
Amon is suppose to have this plan that was suppose to be foolproof and it turns out not so fool proof after all and with that it just doesn't make sense in that regard because Amon contol over the Protoss was to easy to prevent/remove overall. Amon should have foreseen this.
Perhaps, but that is always the main flaw of villians: They have a master plan, but they overlook a crucial detail. In this case, the detail being the actions of Adun, which saved the Dark Templar. Amon's plan would have worked perfectly, if not for the existence of the dark templar. Same flaw with the zerg. Amon overlooked the creation of a being that would not be entirely constrained by the strictures he placed upon the Overmind. And such actions undid everything.
He could not have foreseen a Protoss so dedicated as to be willing to die to preserve those not bound by Khala. Tassadar being the second instance of such a being.
Perhaps, but that is always the main flaw of villians: They have a master plan, but they overlook a crucial detail. In this case, the detail being the actions of Adun, which saved the Dark Templar. Amon's plan would have worked perfectly, if not for the existence of the dark templar. Same flaw with the zerg. Amon overlooked the creation of a being that would not be entirely constrained by the strictures he placed upon the Overmind. And such actions undid everything.
He could not have foreseen a Protoss so dedicated as to be willing to die to preserve those not bound by Khala. Tassadar being the second instance of such a being.
Your post somehow fleshed out the backstory for Amon way better than the game did. Guess we should learn to never expect game to be a medium to convey coherent and fleshed out stories. Your idea also highlighted the importance of Zeratul and Tassadar's sacrifice. Yet Duran, knowing these events as well as Kerrigan's creation, still carried out the plan laid out millenium ago without any changes.
Maybe with the Xel'naga, a millenium isn't such a long time for them, so there isn't any sign of impatient yet.
Perhaps, but that is always the main flaw of villians: They have a master plan, but they overlook a crucial detail. In this case, the detail being the actions of Adun, which saved the Dark Templar. Amon's plan would have worked perfectly, if not for the existence of the dark templar. Same flaw with the zerg. Amon overlooked the creation of a being that would not be entirely constrained by the strictures he placed upon the Overmind. And such actions undid everything.
He could not have foreseen a Protoss so dedicated as to be willing to die to preserve those not bound by Khala. Tassadar being the second instance of such a being.
First I want to say that Amon is not really the villian here, Amon is neutral and just is trying to create its own existence through the use of exploiting other races and machinery of its own creation and we are just that part of his plan that goes against the wind of its will. We are the rebels here and this can be expressed by Amon end plan for Protoss where we can clearly see it did not want the Protoss after a certain point of its plan is completed. The fact that the Protoss can disconnect with the Khala Amon is very well aware of this fact with reason for the fact that the Dark Protoss do exist and it is here we can see why Amon is so resenting of the Protoss. Now Zeratul visions that he gave to Raynor made him see the key to defeating Amon is to make sure Kerrigan does not die even thought she had been a very Brutal towards her own race with good reason. The Overmind is the real reason why Amon's plan went down the drain. For the Overmind is what manifested the tool for Amons destruction, Kerrigan. The Overmind figure everything out before Zeratul did and we can see this with the Zeratul Vision mission that he gave to Raynor and the fact is there because Xel'naga in the from of Tassadar appeared before Zeratul when he touch the Overmind and only the Xel'naga could appear before Zeratul like that like for the same reasons the preserver could tap in to Amon thought through the Khala and do the same. The Overmind was a bridge for Zeratul to communicate with the Xel'naga in the from of Tassadar because his nerve cords were cut. Now you can see that Nerve cords cut or uncut it make no difference.
Yes, the Overminds actions allowed Kerrigans creation. But do recall that the dark templar were the only reason the Protoss were not totally exterminated by the Overmind. Without the dark templar, the Protoss would have stood no chance against the swarm and the Overmind would have completed the total annhilation of Aiur.
Your post somehow fleshed out the backstory for Amon way better than the game did. Guess we should learn to never expect game to be a medium to convey coherent and fleshed out stories. Your idea also highlighted the importance of Zeratul and Tassadar's sacrifice. Yet Duran, knowing these events as well as Kerrigan's creation, still carried out the plan laid out millenium ago without any changes.
Maybe with the Xel'naga, a millenium isn't such a long time for them, so there isn't any sign of impatient yet.
Yes, what the story is trying to convey is the discussion of free will and how one persons choice at a critical moment can alter everything. And yes, the Xel Naga, being long lived as they are, make the normal mistake that such beings do. They believe in the law of large numbers, that statisically, everything works out in their favor long term. But such thinking is totally alien to those who have short lives. And statistics have outliers. Long term they don't matter, but in the brief instant they exist, they upset everything.
In the TV series Babylon 5, the First One, Lorien, explains it best "Only a race whose lives are brief can believe things like love are eternal", with Lorien having lived 5 or so billion years. It entirely boils down to persepective. For a fly, a second is a LONG time, because they only live a day. For a being that lives millions of years, a year feels like second for humans, who live 50-100 years.
Yes, the Overminds actions allowed Kerrigans creation. But do recall that the dark templar were the only reason the Protoss were not totally exterminated by the Overmind. Without the dark templar, the Protoss would have stood no chance against the swarm and the Overmind would have completed the total annhilation of Aiur.
So in other words Amon already lost the game in SC1. I like it.
I'd say Amon is pretty villanous because he wants to put and end to the infinite cycle, and with it the whole universe, and every universe ever-
That's not your generic evil, that's SUPER EVIL!
Well generally that would be the case for any one of our nature but I see Amon as that misunderstood god character trying to put an end to the work started by its fellow Xel'naga entities. Amon is displeased with the results of life in the universe because Amon was bedridden in a void of weakness that was absorb form lower life forms. Its possible Amon became a Suicidal Fanatic due to these life energies and with that yes that is pretty evil.
So at the end of LOTV
Imagine if one protoss was like...
"Fuck You! Ima do what I want cause I'm free and I like my fancy hair I ain't cuttin' dat off."
That would have ruined Artanis' whole plan, I mean what would he have done? Would he have forcibly cut off his hair? Would he kill him? Neither of those options sound like freedom. Luckily Artanis conveniently wasn't put in that position cause everyone is so ready to obey him without question, kinda like how people obey a dictator. So the entire message I'm getting from this is not really about freedom but about how your leader always has your best interest in mind but your god is an asshole, it;s ok to be free from god but make sure to to what your president tells you if you want to live.
Everyone is just like, "Ah fuck our heritage, change is easy!" I just can't help but feel that Blizzard tried to hamfist a giant story with a big preachy messages into a small little campaign and it didn't work cause it doesn't feel realistic. I can't believe that an entire race would change so easy, and everyone is so agreeable they don't ask questions they act like servents when Artanis says cut off an appendage they obey without hesitation. Ironically this story is about freedom but in the end obeying your leader without question is what saves the day.
It's a good thing everything worked out so conveniently for Artanis... It's almost like some god (aka the Writer) had his fate all planned out neatly for him.
@LitePollution9: Go
Eh, just a case of mass Protoss circumcision. Lots of religions believe in that, so why not an alien race too?
@LitePollution9: Go
You forgot the power of the Khala. All the protoss who were just freed from Amons rage would be terrified of going back to that. So when they felt (via the Khala) the feelings Selendis has when she made the decision to actually cut her cords, it would pushed them to follow. As those who were with her and you see in the cinematic cut their cords, the feeling of the certainty of such a decision would roll through the Khala and convince the rest to follow through.
Also, change was NOT easy, they had to collectively go insane first, and such a traumatic experience can provide the force for change. You will notice that no one immediately cut their cords, they all hesitated, and only once Selendis cut hers, did anyone else follow through.
But there is also the idea that some Protoss might in fact want to side with Amon even to their own doom. I don't get the impression that Protoss are a race that fears death. Plenty of religious people are willing to do crazy things for their god even murder and die, even if they saw that Amon was evil they might follow their lord to their own destruction.
It's to bad Amon ain't that smart, he could have just tricked them into doing his bidding like he had done all along, but I guess he got bored and decided to go with a totally new aggressive approach.
It might also be that "freedom" was misunderstood. it's not freedom from the khala.but freedom from amons grasp
@OutsiderXE: Go
It's played like it's general "Freedom". I guess I'll blame the writer for not communicating it in a more understandable way.
This is also not the first game to have this story. Final Fantasy 10 has pretty much the exact same story as Lotv. FF10 pulled it off aside from the ending going off the rails a bit. But here's the problem Starcraft is not Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy is a long ass game that can take it's time to take on big ideas and develop them properly. A starcraft campaign is too small to try to reform an entire race without leaving the audience to try to fill in all the plot holes themselves. There just isn't enough time to try to bite off such a giant preachy message. It also just feels weird in the Starcraft series, I mean, the entire Starcraft 2 story just reminds me of the Starwars Prequels which is not good. But Lotv's feels even more out of place, it's like it's trying to rewrite the entire Starcraft story.
Ironically I would say the story is really a metaphor for itself. The Xel'naga created the original Starcraft 1 story and it was awesome, then Blizzard (Aka Amon) came in and wanted to destroy that story completely. In the end the message is really trying to tell us to accept this new Starcraft 2 story and that changing the story is a good thing. But the problem is that it's just a piss poor story that I've seen before done in better ways.
I would love to hear more about this position.
As long as Khala exists, no, they don't get that choice. The entire problem with the Khala is that it is not all that much better then the hive mind of the zerg. The hive mind is akin to robotic control, where the zerg did as they were told, and could not disobey. The protoss have arguably the far more insidious form of group control, peer pressure. Most people won't do $INSERTTERRIBLEACT, but if everyone else is doing it, they often go along. Now imagine that same peer pressure, and it is in your mind. So you could "choose" but ultimately the rest of the group can mentallly subjugate you into following. It gives the Protoss enomorous power and stability, but at the cost of being able to change, and when change comes, tends to be rather brutal.
Amon sounds not so smart after all.
If the Protoss was truly under Amons control it would be in the best interest of the controller Amon to secure his control over the Protoss and it is in that regard Amon had nothing.
So when all control is lost through the Khala what was Amon objective.
Amon is suppose to have this plan that was suppose to be foolproof and it turns out not so fool proof after all and with that it just doesn't make sense in that regard because Amon contol over the Protoss was to easy to prevent/remove overall. Amon should have foreseen this.
@SolidSC: Go
Perhaps, but that is always the main flaw of villians: They have a master plan, but they overlook a crucial detail. In this case, the detail being the actions of Adun, which saved the Dark Templar. Amon's plan would have worked perfectly, if not for the existence of the dark templar. Same flaw with the zerg. Amon overlooked the creation of a being that would not be entirely constrained by the strictures he placed upon the Overmind. And such actions undid everything.
He could not have foreseen a Protoss so dedicated as to be willing to die to preserve those not bound by Khala. Tassadar being the second instance of such a being.
Your post somehow fleshed out the backstory for Amon way better than the game did. Guess we should learn to never expect game to be a medium to convey coherent and fleshed out stories. Your idea also highlighted the importance of Zeratul and Tassadar's sacrifice. Yet Duran, knowing these events as well as Kerrigan's creation, still carried out the plan laid out millenium ago without any changes.
Maybe with the Xel'naga, a millenium isn't such a long time for them, so there isn't any sign of impatient yet.
First I want to say that Amon is not really the villian here, Amon is neutral and just is trying to create its own existence through the use of exploiting other races and machinery of its own creation and we are just that part of his plan that goes against the wind of its will. We are the rebels here and this can be expressed by Amon end plan for Protoss where we can clearly see it did not want the Protoss after a certain point of its plan is completed. The fact that the Protoss can disconnect with the Khala Amon is very well aware of this fact with reason for the fact that the Dark Protoss do exist and it is here we can see why Amon is so resenting of the Protoss. Now Zeratul visions that he gave to Raynor made him see the key to defeating Amon is to make sure Kerrigan does not die even thought she had been a very Brutal towards her own race with good reason. The Overmind is the real reason why Amon's plan went down the drain. For the Overmind is what manifested the tool for Amons destruction, Kerrigan. The Overmind figure everything out before Zeratul did and we can see this with the Zeratul Vision mission that he gave to Raynor and the fact is there because Xel'naga in the from of Tassadar appeared before Zeratul when he touch the Overmind and only the Xel'naga could appear before Zeratul like that like for the same reasons the preserver could tap in to Amon thought through the Khala and do the same. The Overmind was a bridge for Zeratul to communicate with the Xel'naga in the from of Tassadar because his nerve cords were cut. Now you can see that Nerve cords cut or uncut it make no difference.
Yes, the Overminds actions allowed Kerrigans creation. But do recall that the dark templar were the only reason the Protoss were not totally exterminated by the Overmind. Without the dark templar, the Protoss would have stood no chance against the swarm and the Overmind would have completed the total annhilation of Aiur.
Yes, what the story is trying to convey is the discussion of free will and how one persons choice at a critical moment can alter everything. And yes, the Xel Naga, being long lived as they are, make the normal mistake that such beings do. They believe in the law of large numbers, that statisically, everything works out in their favor long term. But such thinking is totally alien to those who have short lives. And statistics have outliers. Long term they don't matter, but in the brief instant they exist, they upset everything.
In the TV series Babylon 5, the First One, Lorien, explains it best "Only a race whose lives are brief can believe things like love are eternal", with Lorien having lived 5 or so billion years. It entirely boils down to persepective. For a fly, a second is a LONG time, because they only live a day. For a being that lives millions of years, a year feels like second for humans, who live 50-100 years.
So in other words Amon already lost the game in SC1. I like it.
@SolidSC: Go
I'd say Amon is pretty villanous because he wants to put and end to the infinite cycle, and with it the whole universe, and every universe ever- That's not your generic evil, that's SUPER EVIL!
@ThePhail: Go
Well generally that would be the case for any one of our nature but I see Amon as that misunderstood god character trying to put an end to the work started by its fellow Xel'naga entities. Amon is displeased with the results of life in the universe because Amon was bedridden in a void of weakness that was absorb form lower life forms. Its possible Amon became a Suicidal Fanatic due to these life energies and with that yes that is pretty evil.