I've never seen as many people complain about it as in the Mapster community.
I just wanted to know everyone's opinions on the subject.
Currently I have not stolen a map on SC2 but I did "enhance" a couple in SC and even made a couple from scratch. I did all my map making and editing around 2001-2002 and have lost all the maps I worked on and all the maps I edited from getting new computers and not saving everything.
Maps I made from scratch were a tic tac toe map that allowed two players to play tic tac toe as many games as they wanted and kept score until a player decided they played enough. Map number two was a Starship troopers map where I used the floor hatch doodad to open up inside the base and massive amounts of zerg units would come out 45 seconds before pickup.
I edited a few maps also. The first map I took a hand at editing was the classic Cannon D map where units spawned at the top middle and split up to left and right following a path. I balanced many things in this map, added difficulties, took out some cheat triggers, and added a couple units.
The second map I edited was (can't remember or find the name) a map that had 3 teams of marines that would go around the map to kill the other players. It had 3 separate spawn zones where the teams spawned. The more kills you got the more marines that would spawn for you when you lost all your marines. You used your marines to "upgrade" to different units around the map, like a zergling would cost 5 marines or something. You had to use strategy to upgrade you units without dying. What I did to the map was make you start with 2 extra marines and at each break point of your units increasing you would get 2 marines instead of one. I also made it so you cannot attack your own teammate to get kills. I fixed many triggers that, in some locations where you could get a few different units out of the same spot, would automatically only give you the cheapest unit or seldomly another. There were areas that if you stood text would pop up and some of it was incorrect and wasn't aligned properly, I fixed that. Some unit costs were hidden and on a map like that if someone knows the cost and another person doesn't it can be a game winning advantage every time so I fixed that and balanced almost everything.
The third map I edited (don't remember the name of it either) was a bunker defence map where almost every unit type was available for you to choose from at the top that would spawn around your bunker every second or so. There were "hero and super hero" units you got after a certain amount of kills. I did many things to this map, you couldn't even call it the same map because it wasn't really. I started a new map on a bigger forest tileset and added all of the locations back to my new map plus added a few more. I also added a 7 and 8 player and bunker which was not possible to do with the normal editor because the map needed statue units in the top area so I used players 9 and 10 as the statues. I then use a program to copy all the triggers from the other map into a text document and then imported it into my map. I had to copy a set of triggers and rework them for both players 7 and 8, (easily done in the text document). I then edited each unit to the specs of the other map and then rebalanced everything. First thing I had to fix was the bunker, it almost died instantly in the original map and didn't give enough time for people to get heroes and some units were too powerful. I balanced everything and made all units useful. This map was 8 players of fun that would not of been possible without my help.
Every time I edited someone elses map I never had malicious intentions, never discredited the original maker, and never wanted to upset anyone. I always just added my name as an editor and left it as that. I just wanted to make the maps I liked more playable and fun for everyone. I know people put alot of work into their maps because I've made my own but I feel you should be happy if someone wants to edit your map because it had something good in it. Not everyone continues to develop their map forever and locking it just hinders the map growth process. No map is perfect no matter how big the creators ego is. If anyone would have edited my maps that I had known of I would have felt honored and even let them pick my brain if I could get in touch with them. If someone chooses to add or change something to your map it is usually because it had something special to begin with. Aren't we all trying to make maps for others to have fun and not stoke your own ego?
I am done ranting I am sorry if I spieled on too long. Please debate this guys I was just throwing down my experience and my thoughts on the subject. I do not want to see any personal attacks in here just discussion. Also, if you have any questions, please, feel free to ask.
I think if you edit some one elses map or copy anything from someones map, even if you change it is considered stealing, You should let the author know of your intentions before doing so.
Map stealing is just something people have to live with, it seems. People don't want to take the time and work to create their own maps, thus they will take another's. This also generally means that they will not have the motivation to create any major improvements, thus ending up with hundreds of small variations of the same map. Dota and Wintermaul from WC3 are prime examples.
Agreed, the important part is to get the original author's permission. Otherwise, it's like painting a smiley face on the Mona Lisa, and then on the side, write editted by _.
I agree 100% with that wow has said, editing of anyones map, without there knowledge, is wrong. Changing things takes no time, coming up with the idea, creating the scripts, making the units...ect, that takes loads of time, to come in, edit someone else hard work, and just add your name over it seems wrong to me on so many levels.
But at the same time, the original maker should have locked the map if they dont want anyone to edit it.
Short: Ask the person before touching their hard work, putting your name on someone else map (even if you keep their name) is wrong imo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Random Information
Tutorials - Map Development - Galaxy wiki
|Issues? PM me|
You have permission, then its ok. There is not much troubble to ask for this with an email , as nearly all creators allow to contact.
You dont have permission then go and build your own map.
I personaly love that this aspect is now only on the creators side.
While the upside my be that 1 out of 2000 wants to improve your map realy, with all the things like bug hunting and some new features,
the downside is that 1999 want to give unit x +500 dps or inbuild cheats , call it their OWN WORK and publish it as SUPER <name map here> REVOLUTION extreme v10 .
There is a reason that in wc3 so much ppl tried to lock the map away.
Learning can be done by tutorials or asking.
I'm sorry, But I disagree with your post, There may be other reasons why they chose to not lock the map. That's like saying, I left my car unlocked but because I left it unlocked its okay to run down to the jiffy store... Not okay.
How can you equate using someones map to stealing a car, one is a felony and one is not that analogy is just absurd.
I'm not sure if any of you actually read my post I gust it was tl;dr because some of the comments don't pertain to it. At least there is discussion about it. Thanks everyone :D
Without permission its considered stealing. If the author didnt leave a email, Thats not a sign to edit the map because "There was no way to contact him" Either.
a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work
the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own.
X violation is closely related to plagiarism, but it is a federal crime (U.S. Copyright Act 17 U.S.C. §§ 101 - 810). Copyright laws protect the rights of creators of any literary, graphic, musical, artistic, or electronic form. (Facts and ideas are not covered, only the expression of those facts or ideas fixed in a tangible form.) The laws, in effect, keep the right to copy those forms in the hands of the people who created them.
Well, if you edit a map and just play it private with friends and the person never gets to know, and the map does not spread. I don't see the harm, however there are also people that edit a map without permission and play with friends that does end up in the open and then people will start claiming work which isn't theirs because the original might have not been popular. For personal use I wouldn't mind if someone used it as long as they don't change a bunch of things and say hey I made this map. If you intend on bringing your map out in the open you really should get permission from the creator if you ask me, if you don't just start on one yourself or request someone to make a similar map. I can understand you might not want a map ego going around but still, the only thing you get for making maps is the credit and your own pleasure. Having others take it is not fun.
Also adjusting a map in such massive manner that it is not really close to the original would be something I'd accept. Using another map as a setup so to speak, to get your own ideas started.
Yeah, I do like that most of the time in SC2 the creator is fairly easy to find but in the early days of star craft it was very hard to find creators to even get permission. When you see the same version of a map for a month or two being played one might assume it is out of development. I do agree that you should contact the creator, but if you can't contact them it shouldn't be looked down upon.
Im going to borrow Mona Lisa picture and paint a smiley face on it and put my name down at the bottom because I couldnt get a hold of the original author...."Quoted by mParfait"
You guys are something. You guys are something lol, You take someone else work and change it without their permission. Its easy as that. I believe you guys really wouldn't understand unless it happened to you. I wrote a 230 page Essay for college a class before and my teacher tried to publish it as her own work. Unless it has happened to you I really don't think you guys would understand.
And at that said, The blizzard map making publishing system * where it locks the maps so not even you can edit it without the original. Flippin awesome! I dislike thieves... sorry
plagiarism and copyright infringement are not felonies, it doesn't matter how "real time" the crime is. I was just stating that grand theft auto is a felony and editing someone elses map is not. People don't go to jail for copyright infringement, they pay fines.
And if you want to use copyrights as a reason why people shouldn't edit or change another person's map then you should realize that once it is published on battle.net it becomes property of blizzard.
I do want to point out, as stated in the agreement of SC2 that any map you create is still owned by Blizzard. But the work spent by yourself.. I can understand you'd get pissed. I personally never took anyone's map nor edited them on warcraft 3. I only made maps to play with friends anyway so they never got out.
As stated in a legal document before even allowed to use their software you agree that any map that you make doesn't belong to you. The time belongs to you. So ok, I do understand where you are coming from. So Lets put it in a different way. You are editing that persons "time". STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE! lol!
I think the most matter / biggest concern here is, Taking something that's not yours and throwing your name on it.
I would consider it a good samaritan act if someone mowed my lawn or took down my trash. I really don't think all map edits are of the same flavor, some keep pointing out that they are all bad and are the equivalent of putting in a broken stereo in a random person's new Bently I think some map edits are the equivalent of driving a mac truck into the side of your house for sure but not all are of the same breed and you can't lump everything into the same basket. Bug fixes, balance fixes, even quality additions or changes are worthwhile in any map.
Couldn't it be looked at as adding "time" to someone elses "time" ;)
I know creating a map can take a long time. I spent probably a month and a half creating a starship trooper map once and 2 days creating a tic tac toe map from scratch but good editing can take substantial time too. Its not all cupcakes and roses trying to figure out what someone else has done and fixing bugs in it.
Hm agreed, I do have to agree with you on that one. But I believe if people were going to be that great of a samaritan they would talk with the map author and have the map author fix the flaw. - Aside to editing the piece of work on their own.
I've never seen as many people complain about it as in the Mapster community. I just wanted to know everyone's opinions on the subject.
Currently I have not stolen a map on SC2 but I did "enhance" a couple in SC and even made a couple from scratch. I did all my map making and editing around 2001-2002 and have lost all the maps I worked on and all the maps I edited from getting new computers and not saving everything.
Maps I made from scratch were a tic tac toe map that allowed two players to play tic tac toe as many games as they wanted and kept score until a player decided they played enough. Map number two was a Starship troopers map where I used the floor hatch doodad to open up inside the base and massive amounts of zerg units would come out 45 seconds before pickup.
I edited a few maps also. The first map I took a hand at editing was the classic Cannon D map where units spawned at the top middle and split up to left and right following a path. I balanced many things in this map, added difficulties, took out some cheat triggers, and added a couple units.
The second map I edited was (can't remember or find the name) a map that had 3 teams of marines that would go around the map to kill the other players. It had 3 separate spawn zones where the teams spawned. The more kills you got the more marines that would spawn for you when you lost all your marines. You used your marines to "upgrade" to different units around the map, like a zergling would cost 5 marines or something. You had to use strategy to upgrade you units without dying. What I did to the map was make you start with 2 extra marines and at each break point of your units increasing you would get 2 marines instead of one. I also made it so you cannot attack your own teammate to get kills. I fixed many triggers that, in some locations where you could get a few different units out of the same spot, would automatically only give you the cheapest unit or seldomly another. There were areas that if you stood text would pop up and some of it was incorrect and wasn't aligned properly, I fixed that. Some unit costs were hidden and on a map like that if someone knows the cost and another person doesn't it can be a game winning advantage every time so I fixed that and balanced almost everything.
The third map I edited (don't remember the name of it either) was a bunker defence map where almost every unit type was available for you to choose from at the top that would spawn around your bunker every second or so. There were "hero and super hero" units you got after a certain amount of kills. I did many things to this map, you couldn't even call it the same map because it wasn't really. I started a new map on a bigger forest tileset and added all of the locations back to my new map plus added a few more. I also added a 7 and 8 player and bunker which was not possible to do with the normal editor because the map needed statue units in the top area so I used players 9 and 10 as the statues. I then use a program to copy all the triggers from the other map into a text document and then imported it into my map. I had to copy a set of triggers and rework them for both players 7 and 8, (easily done in the text document). I then edited each unit to the specs of the other map and then rebalanced everything. First thing I had to fix was the bunker, it almost died instantly in the original map and didn't give enough time for people to get heroes and some units were too powerful. I balanced everything and made all units useful. This map was 8 players of fun that would not of been possible without my help.
Every time I edited someone elses map I never had malicious intentions, never discredited the original maker, and never wanted to upset anyone. I always just added my name as an editor and left it as that. I just wanted to make the maps I liked more playable and fun for everyone. I know people put alot of work into their maps because I've made my own but I feel you should be happy if someone wants to edit your map because it had something good in it. Not everyone continues to develop their map forever and locking it just hinders the map growth process. No map is perfect no matter how big the creators ego is. If anyone would have edited my maps that I had known of I would have felt honored and even let them pick my brain if I could get in touch with them. If someone chooses to add or change something to your map it is usually because it had something special to begin with. Aren't we all trying to make maps for others to have fun and not stoke your own ego?
I am done ranting I am sorry if I spieled on too long. Please debate this guys I was just throwing down my experience and my thoughts on the subject. I do not want to see any personal attacks in here just discussion. Also, if you have any questions, please, feel free to ask.
I think if you edit some one elses map or copy anything from someones map, even if you change it is considered stealing, You should let the author know of your intentions before doing so.
Thats just my opinion.
Map stealing is just something people have to live with, it seems. People don't want to take the time and work to create their own maps, thus they will take another's. This also generally means that they will not have the motivation to create any major improvements, thus ending up with hundreds of small variations of the same map. Dota and Wintermaul from WC3 are prime examples.
@wowacesucksmassivekok: Go
Agreed, the important part is to get the original author's permission. Otherwise, it's like painting a smiley face on the Mona Lisa, and then on the side, write editted by _.
I agree 100% with that wow has said, editing of anyones map, without there knowledge, is wrong. Changing things takes no time, coming up with the idea, creating the scripts, making the units...ect, that takes loads of time, to come in, edit someone else hard work, and just add your name over it seems wrong to me on so many levels.
But at the same time, the original maker should have locked the map if they dont want anyone to edit it.
Short: Ask the person before touching their hard work, putting your name on someone else map (even if you keep their name) is wrong imo.
You have permission, then its ok. There is not much troubble to ask for this with an email , as nearly all creators allow to contact. You dont have permission then go and build your own map.
I personaly love that this aspect is now only on the creators side.
While the upside my be that 1 out of 2000 wants to improve your map realy, with all the things like bug hunting and some new features, the downside is that 1999 want to give unit x +500 dps or inbuild cheats , call it their OWN WORK and publish it as SUPER <name map here> REVOLUTION extreme v10 .
There is a reason that in wc3 so much ppl tried to lock the map away. Learning can be done by tutorials or asking.
cera
I'm sorry, But I disagree with your post, There may be other reasons why they chose to not lock the map. That's like saying, I left my car unlocked but because I left it unlocked its okay to run down to the jiffy store... Not okay.
@wowacesucksmassivekok: Go
How can you equate using someones map to stealing a car, one is a felony and one is not that analogy is just absurd.
I'm not sure if any of you actually read my post I gust it was tl;dr because some of the comments don't pertain to it. At least there is discussion about it. Thanks everyone :D
Without permission its considered stealing. If the author didnt leave a email, Thats not a sign to edit the map because "There was no way to contact him" Either.
Definitions of plagiarism on the Web:
X violation is closely related to plagiarism, but it is a federal crime (U.S. Copyright Act 17 U.S.C. §§ 101 - 810). Copyright laws protect the rights of creators of any literary, graphic, musical, artistic, or electronic form. (Facts and ideas are not covered, only the expression of those facts or ideas fixed in a tangible form.) The laws, in effect, keep the right to copy those forms in the hands of the people who created them.
@Nigle: Go
They are both considered "real time" crimes
Well, if you edit a map and just play it private with friends and the person never gets to know, and the map does not spread. I don't see the harm, however there are also people that edit a map without permission and play with friends that does end up in the open and then people will start claiming work which isn't theirs because the original might have not been popular. For personal use I wouldn't mind if someone used it as long as they don't change a bunch of things and say hey I made this map. If you intend on bringing your map out in the open you really should get permission from the creator if you ask me, if you don't just start on one yourself or request someone to make a similar map. I can understand you might not want a map ego going around but still, the only thing you get for making maps is the credit and your own pleasure. Having others take it is not fun.
Also adjusting a map in such massive manner that it is not really close to the original would be something I'd accept. Using another map as a setup so to speak, to get your own ideas started.
@Ceratul: Go
Yeah, I do like that most of the time in SC2 the creator is fairly easy to find but in the early days of star craft it was very hard to find creators to even get permission. When you see the same version of a map for a month or two being played one might assume it is out of development. I do agree that you should contact the creator, but if you can't contact them it shouldn't be looked down upon.
Im going to borrow Mona Lisa picture and paint a smiley face on it and put my name down at the bottom because I couldnt get a hold of the original author...."Quoted by mParfait"
You guys are something. You guys are something lol, You take someone else work and change it without their permission. Its easy as that. I believe you guys really wouldn't understand unless it happened to you. I wrote a 230 page Essay for college a class before and my teacher tried to publish it as her own work. Unless it has happened to you I really don't think you guys would understand.
And at that said, The blizzard map making publishing system * where it locks the maps so not even you can edit it without the original. Flippin awesome! I dislike thieves... sorry
@wowacesucksmassivekok: Go
plagiarism and copyright infringement are not felonies, it doesn't matter how "real time" the crime is. I was just stating that grand theft auto is a felony and editing someone elses map is not. People don't go to jail for copyright infringement, they pay fines.
And if you want to use copyrights as a reason why people shouldn't edit or change another person's map then you should realize that once it is published on battle.net it becomes property of blizzard.
@wowacesucksmassivekok: Go
I do want to point out, as stated in the agreement of SC2 that any map you create is still owned by Blizzard. But the work spent by yourself.. I can understand you'd get pissed. I personally never took anyone's map nor edited them on warcraft 3. I only made maps to play with friends anyway so they never got out.
As stated in a legal document before even allowed to use their software you agree that any map that you make doesn't belong to you. The time belongs to you. So ok, I do understand where you are coming from. So Lets put it in a different way. You are editing that persons "time". STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE! lol!
I think the most matter / biggest concern here is, Taking something that's not yours and throwing your name on it.
I would consider it a good samaritan act if someone mowed my lawn or took down my trash. I really don't think all map edits are of the same flavor, some keep pointing out that they are all bad and are the equivalent of putting in a broken stereo in a random person's new Bently I think some map edits are the equivalent of driving a mac truck into the side of your house for sure but not all are of the same breed and you can't lump everything into the same basket. Bug fixes, balance fixes, even quality additions or changes are worthwhile in any map.
@wowacesucksmassivekok: Go
Couldn't it be looked at as adding "time" to someone elses "time" ;)
I know creating a map can take a long time. I spent probably a month and a half creating a starship trooper map once and 2 days creating a tic tac toe map from scratch but good editing can take substantial time too. Its not all cupcakes and roses trying to figure out what someone else has done and fixing bugs in it.
@Nigle: Go
Hm agreed, I do have to agree with you on that one. But I believe if people were going to be that great of a samaritan they would talk with the map author and have the map author fix the flaw. - Aside to editing the piece of work on their own.
(I just found out samaritan was a name.)
@wowacesucksmassivekok: Go I agree with contacting the author completly
lowercase has a different meaning then capitalized.