So if you're unaware of this, it's basically ruined the arcade. Blizzard published a patch for StarCraft II on Wednesday I think, and about half of all arcade maps are now just bricked. It affects basically all large lobbies (though some appear to be unscathed, with seemingly no pattern) or just outright prevents a map from being hosted. You'll get an error, or be booted back to the main menu.
I'm wondering if anyone has found anything about this bug that might help in fixing it. It only seems to affect some maps and for the life of me I can't decipher what it is that causes some maps to be unplayable. Some 4v4 maps are broken, yet others are fine. Some single-team maps can happily enjoy 10+ players, while others won't even load.
Personally, it's destroyed every map I've made in the past 2 years including my RtC entry. They went from popular to dead overnight and I'm getting constant emails to fix a problem which I had nothing to do with.
So far I've found that game attributes seem to be the cause of unhostable maps. Outright removing all game attributes will fix this and allow a map to be hosted again.
The affected maps of mine are: X Hero Siege Starlight, Hero Line Wars Starlight, Lordaeron Strike, Lordaeron Conquest, Nexus Fortress.
Unaffected maps are: Desert Strike HotS, Warships, Tya's Zerg Defense.
I think it's related to the wc3 art mod, as only my maps that use this mod are affected. At the same time I still see functional maps that make use of the wc3 art mod so I really don't know.
The last Blizzard post regarding this indicated that it will take them several weeks to a month to fix. So I thought I'd look into what causes some maps to be affected, but not others. So far I've found very little. Has anyone had any luck?
I've been playing around with Game Variants and Lobby size and shape today.
For [Probes vs Zealot 2] reducing lobby size to 7 allows it to be reliably played with that many players.
Any larger number it kicks players on loading. Simplifying and reset default game variants appears to make no difference.
I've not yet tested anything for Game Attributes. Will have a look at that in the next 48 hours or so given the observations above.
[White TD] which i also publish has no Game Attributes and works fine with 11 Players (it's normal max lobby).
Does PvZ2 or White TD use the void dependencies? Either multi or campaign?
My other suspicion is that the void campaign dependency is causing the issue. I have 3v3 maps with it that are broken, and 3v3 maps using void multi that work fine.
Personally, it's destroyed every map I've made in the past 2 years including my RtC entry. They went from popular to dead overnight and I'm getting constant emails to fix a problem which I had nothing to do with.
The last Blizzard post regarding this indicated that it will take them several weeks to a month to fix. So I thought I'd look into what causes some maps to be affected, but not others. So far I've found very little. Has anyone had any luck?
If seriously, how it's possible to create such broken patch? It's already over 5 years since release of SC2 and they still produce such crap regularly. It's easier to do a rollback. Ah, wait, Blizzard does not care about Arcade...
Easy, it's called software development. Might as well ask Microsoft why there is still bugs in Windows, it's only 15 years old. And no, rollbacks are not easier.
And no, they don't produce such crap regularly, and if they truly didn't care about the arcade, where did they get the budget for rock the cabinet? For not caring, they spend an awful lot of money on it...
Easy, it's called software development. Might as well ask Microsoft why there is still bugs in Windows, it's only 15 years old. And no, rollbacks are not easier.
And no, they don't produce such crap regularly, and if they truly didn't care about the arcade, where did they get the budget for rock the cabinet? For not caring, they spend an awful lot of money on it...
I think that Rock the cabinet is kind of unconstructive glitters. And that the money spent in it is just harmless for Blizzard but I would prefer they use it to improve the editor, even if I find fine to reward good and appreciated maps.
The real issue is the several weeks or months required to fix this. Seems strange.
So I think it's any map that uses the Void Campaign dependency has the lobby bug. Does anyone have a map that uses the Void Campaign dependency and is also free of the lobby bug?
Easy, it's called software development. Might as well ask Microsoft why there is still bugs in Windows, it's only 15 years old. And no, rollbacks are not easier.
Funny to see such posts, every time when i am raging about Blizzard someone posts such this to protect them.
@KorvinGump: Go
And no, they don't produce such crap regularly
I am here over 5 years and know every patch of Blizzard since 2010 and beta test of SC2 editor. And you know what? It's still beta. Back in 2010 every patch killed maps with new bugs/features and etc. Every year it becomes better, but to see such this in 2016 it's just insane, it's not 2010 when it's just was a release of the game.
@KorvinGump: Go
if they truly didn't care about the arcade, where did they get the budget for rock the cabinet? For not caring, they spend an awful lot of money on it...
Are you kidding me? Rock the cabinet with 30k$ budget? Company which earns millions and millions $$$ on WOW and now on Hearthstone gives 30k$? It's the same as 1$(or may be even 1 cent) for me or for you. They does not care about arcade since 2010 and they don't care now.
In general, raging is rather well... useless. Screaming "Blizzard is teh suck" is never going to be worthwhile
If this is still beta, then I wonder what people call other tools that cost way way way more (Final Cut Pro is the most memorable one, killed backwards compatibility, that was fun to watch), and cause similar issues. Or maybe the patch to antivirus that nuked peoples Windows installs. Or maybe the current iOS patch that bricks your phone if you didn't use an Apple approve repair shop on the fingerprint reader (though that could be a good security feature, but the wipe of the device was strange).
Rock the cabinet, in no way, cost $30k. You only see the prizes. Legal had to sign off, that alone is several grand, since they have lawyers on retainer. Then the time to do the web pages, time to post the contest stuff, the weekly arcade testing done by Blizzard CM's (Traysent primarily, I doubt he was doing it for free...). Blizzard staff had to playthrough all the contest entries, and they are getting paid at LEAST 25 an hour (Irvine is expensive). A reasonable guess is 250k, give or take 50k.
As for Unreal. Of course they are doing that, that's not grants, that's their marketing budget. They are doing literally no different then what Adobe or Microsoft or any number of other companies that make productivity software do: Get mind share. They know that if that if people ONLY know Unreal or Unity, they will start companies with those tool chains, and seek people to use the same tool. Creates demand and also makes it expected that you know that tool to get employment. Long term, this basically kills the competition, not much in the office suite nowadays, its Office and... Office, and to my knowledge, there is Photoshop as the only serious photo editing tool.
Let's be clear. Blizzard can not, and will not compete with Unity/Unreal, because they are not in the toolmaking business. Not their area of expertise, and not their primary business. For anyone who wants to make a game, full blown, and is a coder, Unity/Unreal are much much better than SC2. The only thing that I caution is that for the most part, game coding is not really a career. Due to the stress of the work, the total unpredictability of the market, and the relatively low compensation, game coding is usually just a path to a more stable coding job in any other industry, with far better pay. End game is usually management or consulting.
Sure bugs happen. Those system are so much complicated that it is unavodable.
But if I find this one strangely long to fix from Blizzard, it is because I have kind of feeling that they know exactly what it is but they have decided to fix it with something else, latter. For Financial reason. I bet there is not a full fighting development team of the dead working on the editor. Blizzard may even know it would happen before to release the patch. It is a possibility.
But Blizzard has to make choices. There is other things who need to be done, not only this bug to fix. And maybe the fix of this bug was judged unproductive to be done, whereas a following development would ease it later, or even has already fixed it but as it is not fully done, we have to wait for it.
It is just a feeling, that is why I only said that it seems strange.
I have to disagree about Unity / Unreal. I am a coder and I am right now on the editor of Starcraft 2 because I find it better and way easier to use in many ways. I can't say Unity or Unreal are better. They are different tools and they require much more work and knowledges to make an equivalent game, not only codes knowledge.
Of course Starcraft 2 doesn't / won't allow me to buy my bread every day. While Unity / Unreal possibly could after something like 5 or 10 years of learning and work ( to be optimistic), and with risky financial investments xD
I think that your 250k estimation is way higher than what it should effectively cost. Just give me the 30K, and I will organize this event with only 5K in more (so I could take some holidays somewhere xD). The webpages were already done long time ago, the vote system too. Only a little speech from a community manager and maybe not the big one from Blizzard. Then need to check the results, and second speech. Same for all the steps of the votes. Of course I would not have the costs of decision and organization. Do you think it costs 215K ?
Blizzard wanted to add paid maps, the community disagree. I don't know why, hippies inside ? Saying no to the economic world ? I want all but I want it free and it will be great ? I am sure that paid maps would have so much changed the way Blizzard care about custom maps :(
For the topic, my map uses the Void campaign and crashes with more than 7 players.
Does PvZ2 or White TD use the void dependencies? Either multi or campaign?
My other suspicion is that the void campaign dependency is causing the issue. I have 3v3 maps with it that are broken, and 3v3 maps using void multi that work fine.
Ok so ....
[White TD] does not use VoiD Dependency.
[Probes vs Zealot 2] does use VoiD ...
I have now tested with the removal of all Game Attributes.
At first test I thought this worked to bypass problem (because map loaded with 8 players).
HOWEVER i am SAD to report that additional testing for 9+ players showed that problem still occurs with 9+ players, so that removal alone does not help.
I still have a version without VoiD dependency that I can reload to test ... let me take a look at that...
-----------
I also noticed for the first time that Archon Mode is now supported for player types in Arcade Maps in editor...
14/2 = 7; i'm thinking the defect will be related to the Archon Mode implementation ...
When did Archon mode get added ? 3.0 and I missed it, or was it 3.1 or is it actually most recent 3.1.2 ?
So if you're unaware of this, it's basically ruined the arcade. Blizzard published a patch for StarCraft II on Wednesday I think, and about half of all arcade maps are now just bricked. It affects basically all large lobbies (though some appear to be unscathed, with seemingly no pattern) or just outright prevents a map from being hosted. You'll get an error, or be booted back to the main menu.
I'm wondering if anyone has found anything about this bug that might help in fixing it. It only seems to affect some maps and for the life of me I can't decipher what it is that causes some maps to be unplayable. Some 4v4 maps are broken, yet others are fine. Some single-team maps can happily enjoy 10+ players, while others won't even load.
Personally, it's destroyed every map I've made in the past 2 years including my RtC entry. They went from popular to dead overnight and I'm getting constant emails to fix a problem which I had nothing to do with.
So far I've found that game attributes seem to be the cause of unhostable maps. Outright removing all game attributes will fix this and allow a map to be hosted again.
The affected maps of mine are: X Hero Siege Starlight, Hero Line Wars Starlight, Lordaeron Strike, Lordaeron Conquest, Nexus Fortress.
Unaffected maps are: Desert Strike HotS, Warships, Tya's Zerg Defense.
I think it's related to the wc3 art mod, as only my maps that use this mod are affected. At the same time I still see functional maps that make use of the wc3 art mod so I really don't know.
The last Blizzard post regarding this indicated that it will take them several weeks to a month to fix. So I thought I'd look into what causes some maps to be affected, but not others. So far I've found very little. Has anyone had any luck?
no no no
My map does not use any WC3 assets but still has this issue.
Does your map use or define game attributes in a dependency?
Yeah all of my data stuff is in a separate gameplay mod.
no no no
@houndofbaskerville: Go
I've been playing around with Game Variants and Lobby size and shape today.
For [Probes vs Zealot 2] reducing lobby size to 7 allows it to be reliably played with that many players. Any larger number it kicks players on loading. Simplifying and reset default game variants appears to make no difference.
I've not yet tested anything for Game Attributes. Will have a look at that in the next 48 hours or so given the observations above.
[White TD] which i also publish has no Game Attributes and works fine with 11 Players (it's normal max lobby).
@Rohime: Go
Does PvZ2 or White TD use the void dependencies? Either multi or campaign?
My other suspicion is that the void campaign dependency is causing the issue. I have 3v3 maps with it that are broken, and 3v3 maps using void multi that work fine.
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Curse PremiumIf seriously, how it's possible to create such broken patch? It's already over 5 years since release of SC2 and they still produce such crap regularly. It's easier to do a rollback. Ah, wait, Blizzard does not care about Arcade...
http://www.youtube.com/user/RussianMapster
@KorvinGump: Go
Easy, it's called software development. Might as well ask Microsoft why there is still bugs in Windows, it's only 15 years old. And no, rollbacks are not easier.
And no, they don't produce such crap regularly, and if they truly didn't care about the arcade, where did they get the budget for rock the cabinet? For not caring, they spend an awful lot of money on it...
no no no
I think that Rock the cabinet is kind of unconstructive glitters. And that the money spent in it is just harmless for Blizzard but I would prefer they use it to improve the editor, even if I find fine to reward good and appreciated maps.
The real issue is the several weeks or months required to fix this. Seems strange.
So I think it's any map that uses the Void Campaign dependency has the lobby bug. Does anyone have a map that uses the Void Campaign dependency and is also free of the lobby bug?
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Curse PremiumFunny to see such posts, every time when i am raging about Blizzard someone posts such this to protect them.
I am here over 5 years and know every patch of Blizzard since 2010 and beta test of SC2 editor. And you know what? It's still beta. Back in 2010 every patch killed maps with new bugs/features and etc. Every year it becomes better, but to see such this in 2016 it's just insane, it's not 2010 when it's just was a release of the game.
Are you kidding me? Rock the cabinet with 30k$ budget? Company which earns millions and millions $$$ on WOW and now on Hearthstone gives 30k$? It's the same as 1$(or may be even 1 cent) for me or for you. They does not care about arcade since 2010 and they don't care now.
Check Unreal Engine 4 grants https://www.unrealengine.com/unrealdevgrants, 5 mln $. THIS IS REAL grants, not just 30k$ per year which feels like dog sop. Just basic example when Epic games gives a grants to devs https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/epic-games-awards-150000-in-unreal-dev-grants
http://www.youtube.com/user/RussianMapster
In general, raging is rather well... useless. Screaming "Blizzard is teh suck" is never going to be worthwhile
If this is still beta, then I wonder what people call other tools that cost way way way more (Final Cut Pro is the most memorable one, killed backwards compatibility, that was fun to watch), and cause similar issues. Or maybe the patch to antivirus that nuked peoples Windows installs. Or maybe the current iOS patch that bricks your phone if you didn't use an Apple approve repair shop on the fingerprint reader (though that could be a good security feature, but the wipe of the device was strange).
Rock the cabinet, in no way, cost $30k. You only see the prizes. Legal had to sign off, that alone is several grand, since they have lawyers on retainer. Then the time to do the web pages, time to post the contest stuff, the weekly arcade testing done by Blizzard CM's (Traysent primarily, I doubt he was doing it for free...). Blizzard staff had to playthrough all the contest entries, and they are getting paid at LEAST 25 an hour (Irvine is expensive). A reasonable guess is 250k, give or take 50k.
As for Unreal. Of course they are doing that, that's not grants, that's their marketing budget. They are doing literally no different then what Adobe or Microsoft or any number of other companies that make productivity software do: Get mind share. They know that if that if people ONLY know Unreal or Unity, they will start companies with those tool chains, and seek people to use the same tool. Creates demand and also makes it expected that you know that tool to get employment. Long term, this basically kills the competition, not much in the office suite nowadays, its Office and... Office, and to my knowledge, there is Photoshop as the only serious photo editing tool.
Let's be clear. Blizzard can not, and will not compete with Unity/Unreal, because they are not in the toolmaking business. Not their area of expertise, and not their primary business. For anyone who wants to make a game, full blown, and is a coder, Unity/Unreal are much much better than SC2. The only thing that I caution is that for the most part, game coding is not really a career. Due to the stress of the work, the total unpredictability of the market, and the relatively low compensation, game coding is usually just a path to a more stable coding job in any other industry, with far better pay. End game is usually management or consulting.
Sure bugs happen. Those system are so much complicated that it is unavodable.
But if I find this one strangely long to fix from Blizzard, it is because I have kind of feeling that they know exactly what it is but they have decided to fix it with something else, latter. For Financial reason. I bet there is not a full fighting development team of the dead working on the editor. Blizzard may even know it would happen before to release the patch. It is a possibility. But Blizzard has to make choices. There is other things who need to be done, not only this bug to fix. And maybe the fix of this bug was judged unproductive to be done, whereas a following development would ease it later, or even has already fixed it but as it is not fully done, we have to wait for it. It is just a feeling, that is why I only said that it seems strange.
I have to disagree about Unity / Unreal. I am a coder and I am right now on the editor of Starcraft 2 because I find it better and way easier to use in many ways. I can't say Unity or Unreal are better. They are different tools and they require much more work and knowledges to make an equivalent game, not only codes knowledge. Of course Starcraft 2 doesn't / won't allow me to buy my bread every day. While Unity / Unreal possibly could after something like 5 or 10 years of learning and work ( to be optimistic), and with risky financial investments xD
I think that your 250k estimation is way higher than what it should effectively cost. Just give me the 30K, and I will organize this event with only 5K in more (so I could take some holidays somewhere xD). The webpages were already done long time ago, the vote system too. Only a little speech from a community manager and maybe not the big one from Blizzard. Then need to check the results, and second speech. Same for all the steps of the votes. Of course I would not have the costs of decision and organization. Do you think it costs 215K ?
Blizzard wanted to add paid maps, the community disagree. I don't know why, hippies inside ? Saying no to the economic world ? I want all but I want it free and it will be great ? I am sure that paid maps would have so much changed the way Blizzard care about custom maps :(
For the topic, my map uses the Void campaign and crashes with more than 7 players.
Ok so ....
[White TD] does not use VoiD Dependency. [Probes vs Zealot 2] does use VoiD ...
I have now tested with the removal of all Game Attributes.
At first test I thought this worked to bypass problem (because map loaded with 8 players).
HOWEVER i am SAD to report that additional testing for 9+ players showed that problem still occurs with 9+ players, so that removal alone does not help.
I still have a version without VoiD dependency that I can reload to test ... let me take a look at that...
-----------I also noticed for the first time that Archon Mode is now supported for player types in Arcade Maps in editor...
14/2 = 7; i'm thinking the defect will be related to the Archon Mode implementation ...
When did Archon mode get added ? 3.0 and I missed it, or was it 3.1 or is it actually most recent 3.1.2 ?
@Rohime: Go
Mapsters .... feel free to add to this request: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20508202919?page=5#81
Wow.
I had not read this topic. Thanks for the link. I particularly enjoyed the passage about the crystal ball xD
@Rohime: Go
Well now I'm just plain stumped then. Still, thank you for the information!
Archon mode and associated game attributes along with the co-op commander attributes were added with 3.0.
I'm pretty much at a loss as to the cause. All my maps that share campaign and war3 art asset dependencies are broken. Every other map is fine.