So, as you may or may not have learned, I am working on a new map, called Camp Delta, which is a 1-2 player map where you infiltrate the a military (you can find the main discussion for the map in the Map Suggestions forum). Anyway, I have not come far yet, but I realize it would be helpful to get some input. Below I have some images for what I have so far, though it's no much. I consider myself fairly adept at terrain, but I don't think I have the same sort of creativity as some people 'round these parts.
The base itself is placed on the margins of a jungle, which you'll see behind the base fences if you move close enough to them. You even start in the jungle. The inside of the base starts out a bit rocky/deserty, before you come further inside, where's the more concrete. You can even go inside buildings, which has a more installation-like field.
Now, I'd very much appreciate some critique on the terrain so far, as well as some tips on what to place in the base. So just chug out all your ideas!
Below is the start position. This is right outside the base, so you can see some of the jungle, which is separated by a more desert-like path.
Next is a small outpost that could be seen on the edge of the last picture. There's a weapon you can pick up at the bottom.
Here's another little thingy, with a patrol thor guarding an entrance to a building.
Here we can see the entrance to the base.
Below is inside the base. It's fairly dry yet. As you can see, there's a road there. Occasionally you'll see a tank patrolling it, and other times there are armored transports you can sneak onto. This part is obviously not yet finished. As you can see however, there is a lot of room there, which is intentional. I want the player to have some freedom of where to go.
One simple thought: you need a grass texture. I realize you're probably canned for textures already, but without proper grass the transition between desert and jungle feels very off. If you're going to suddenly place areas of rampant growth within a desert (you should hear a voice in the back of your mind right now saying the worth 'Oasis'), you need to make it look like those places are genuinely fertile. Right now the area feels more like a jungle with a lot of sand to me than a desert with fertile spots of plants.
Probably the best tip I can give you in relation to this is the following: have a river meander throughout your entire map. With your map's lay-out as far done as it is it may be hard to properly make one right now, but it would help so much in selling the idea that this is a desert area with jungle-y parts. You can make the areas around the river completely filled with plants and extremely lush and place down smaller spots of plant life further out, creating this nile-like feeling. In fact, I'd recommend you google pictures of the Nile and use that for inspiration. Additionally, I should note that having a river sets your terrain up for a truckload of cool things you can then do: shallow crossings with jungle banks on either side, an area of elevation to provide a bit of depth, a more rocky area, man-made bridges over the river with jungle beneath/around them... I can see some awesome possibilities there.
Edit: I should perhaps mention this more often, but your terrain already looks pretty nice to begin with. There's some really nice texture play, you make great use of focal points and your man-made installations look really realistic; you can definitely see you 'build' those over a desert landscape rather than 'sculpted' the desert around it to fit the base, which is a bit of a rookie mistake. I just think you're at a point where you can take that 'next step' and create some really cool looking places of interest in your map to go for the A+ in the terrain department.
Thanks for the reply. You're absolutely right about the grass, there's too little of it. I suppose it had to do with a texture swap I made. I originally had light and dark grass, but realized I needed to exchange one of the two for another texture, seeing as I'm going for a lot of different area types. In the process I not only exchanged depth for dynamics, but a lot of the grass disappeared. I only see it now that I need to make up for that by placing more grass.
FYI, I know I said I wanted to give it a deserty feel, but I suppose the desert textures in the jungle were supposed to look more like paths between the trees than an actual desert. Again, a problem that can be fixed by adding more grass. It's the inside of the base that is supposed to have the desert feel.
A river is a great idea, and one I had already had, but stupidly forgot. I added in a little part now where the ghost starts out in a river bush (you can see a glimpse of it in my avatar). I will also add a shallow river inside the base where it will be a bit easier to sneak around.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm always happy with my terrain, but I devised a "fast style" for my campaign so I wouldn't spend too much time on it (I reused you a lot of doodad mixes, and I almost never raised or lowered terrain). I want to be more detailed now; start taking the next step, as you say. I think this map can give me the opportunity for me to do that, seeing as I don't have a second map that's waiting to be made after I'm finished with it.
No worries! Good terraining seems to be a binary thing (people can either do it or not), but great terrain often requires some insight you may not get to by yourself. Feedback helps a lot there. I'm really curious to see the end product of this. I know what you mean with the 'fast style'; I also tend to terrain like I'm fixing up a house - first you build a wall, then you cement it, then you make it flat with gypsum, then you add plaster, then plaster glue, then more plaster, then you paint it, and then you come back to it later to hang up pictures. I find you often simply don't realize you're at the plaster stage until you're actually hanging up pictures, so to speak.
In regards to the Grass; I love the Bel'Shir Shrub texture for this exact purpose. I haven't tried it with the HotS tilesets so it may not work as good, but give it a go.
Yeah, definitely, binary. I suppose some people have a more aesthetic mind than others. I myself used to draw endlessly as a kid, and although I stopped doing that, I'd like to think I carried on with the map editor.
I think it looks really good so far. I recommend you check out the game Just Cause 2 as that has a deserty forest kind of feel to it. It has lots of lush areas and lots of empty deserts. I like the blending so far and think you shouldn't over do it with the jungle feel, because to me jungles generally don't house military bases more outposts I would think.
I agree with the river meandering throughout the map. It would give it a diverse feeling, plus walking through water with characters is awesome in HoTs. But it's probably not worth redoing your whole map layout. I can't wait to see more and look forward to whatever you have coming.
I don't see any images. Please use the +Add attachment button so that everybody can see them, if they exist. The network I am posting through filters some addresses.
So, as you may or may not have learned, I am working on a new map, called Camp Delta, which is a 1-2 player map where you infiltrate the a military (you can find the main discussion for the map in the Map Suggestions forum). Anyway, I have not come far yet, but I realize it would be helpful to get some input. Below I have some images for what I have so far, though it's no much. I consider myself fairly adept at terrain, but I don't think I have the same sort of creativity as some people 'round these parts.
The base itself is placed on the margins of a jungle, which you'll see behind the base fences if you move close enough to them. You even start in the jungle. The inside of the base starts out a bit rocky/deserty, before you come further inside, where's the more concrete. You can even go inside buildings, which has a more installation-like field.
Now, I'd very much appreciate some critique on the terrain so far, as well as some tips on what to place in the base. So just chug out all your ideas!
Below is the start position. This is right outside the base, so you can see some of the jungle, which is separated by a more desert-like path.
Next is a small outpost that could be seen on the edge of the last picture. There's a weapon you can pick up at the bottom.
Here's another little thingy, with a patrol thor guarding an entrance to a building.
Here we can see the entrance to the base.
Below is inside the base. It's fairly dry yet. As you can see, there's a road there. Occasionally you'll see a tank patrolling it, and other times there are armored transports you can sneak onto. This part is obviously not yet finished. As you can see however, there is a lot of room there, which is intentional. I want the player to have some freedom of where to go.
@EivindL: Go
One simple thought: you need a grass texture. I realize you're probably canned for textures already, but without proper grass the transition between desert and jungle feels very off. If you're going to suddenly place areas of rampant growth within a desert (you should hear a voice in the back of your mind right now saying the worth 'Oasis'), you need to make it look like those places are genuinely fertile. Right now the area feels more like a jungle with a lot of sand to me than a desert with fertile spots of plants.
Probably the best tip I can give you in relation to this is the following: have a river meander throughout your entire map. With your map's lay-out as far done as it is it may be hard to properly make one right now, but it would help so much in selling the idea that this is a desert area with jungle-y parts. You can make the areas around the river completely filled with plants and extremely lush and place down smaller spots of plant life further out, creating this nile-like feeling. In fact, I'd recommend you google pictures of the Nile and use that for inspiration. Additionally, I should note that having a river sets your terrain up for a truckload of cool things you can then do: shallow crossings with jungle banks on either side, an area of elevation to provide a bit of depth, a more rocky area, man-made bridges over the river with jungle beneath/around them... I can see some awesome possibilities there.
Edit: I should perhaps mention this more often, but your terrain already looks pretty nice to begin with. There's some really nice texture play, you make great use of focal points and your man-made installations look really realistic; you can definitely see you 'build' those over a desert landscape rather than 'sculpted' the desert around it to fit the base, which is a bit of a rookie mistake. I just think you're at a point where you can take that 'next step' and create some really cool looking places of interest in your map to go for the A+ in the terrain department.
Thanks for the reply. You're absolutely right about the grass, there's too little of it. I suppose it had to do with a texture swap I made. I originally had light and dark grass, but realized I needed to exchange one of the two for another texture, seeing as I'm going for a lot of different area types. In the process I not only exchanged depth for dynamics, but a lot of the grass disappeared. I only see it now that I need to make up for that by placing more grass.
FYI, I know I said I wanted to give it a deserty feel, but I suppose the desert textures in the jungle were supposed to look more like paths between the trees than an actual desert. Again, a problem that can be fixed by adding more grass. It's the inside of the base that is supposed to have the desert feel.
A river is a great idea, and one I had already had, but stupidly forgot. I added in a little part now where the ghost starts out in a river bush (you can see a glimpse of it in my avatar). I will also add a shallow river inside the base where it will be a bit easier to sneak around.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm always happy with my terrain, but I devised a "fast style" for my campaign so I wouldn't spend too much time on it (I reused you a lot of doodad mixes, and I almost never raised or lowered terrain). I want to be more detailed now; start taking the next step, as you say. I think this map can give me the opportunity for me to do that, seeing as I don't have a second map that's waiting to be made after I'm finished with it.
@EivindL: Go
No worries! Good terraining seems to be a binary thing (people can either do it or not), but great terrain often requires some insight you may not get to by yourself. Feedback helps a lot there. I'm really curious to see the end product of this. I know what you mean with the 'fast style'; I also tend to terrain like I'm fixing up a house - first you build a wall, then you cement it, then you make it flat with gypsum, then you add plaster, then plaster glue, then more plaster, then you paint it, and then you come back to it later to hang up pictures. I find you often simply don't realize you're at the plaster stage until you're actually hanging up pictures, so to speak.
In regards to the Grass; I love the Bel'Shir Shrub texture for this exact purpose. I haven't tried it with the HotS tilesets so it may not work as good, but give it a go.
Yeah, definitely, binary. I suppose some people have a more aesthetic mind than others. I myself used to draw endlessly as a kid, and although I stopped doing that, I'd like to think I carried on with the map editor.
@EivindL: Go
I think it looks really good so far. I recommend you check out the game Just Cause 2 as that has a deserty forest kind of feel to it. It has lots of lush areas and lots of empty deserts. I like the blending so far and think you shouldn't over do it with the jungle feel, because to me jungles generally don't house military bases more outposts I would think.
I agree with the river meandering throughout the map. It would give it a diverse feeling, plus walking through water with characters is awesome in HoTs. But it's probably not worth redoing your whole map layout. I can't wait to see more and look forward to whatever you have coming.
Okay, I'll give it a look.
I don't have a map layout to redo (that's partly why this thread exists), so bring on the suggestions.
I don't see any images. Please use the +Add attachment button so that everybody can see them, if they exist. The network I am posting through filters some addresses.
Here you go.