Wouldn't it be possible to set a trigger so that when unit A enters a region, to increase his height gradually or apply a floating at X height buff to him? I mean sure, it would mean some of the multi story buildings would be unusable, but what you reckon?
You mean using the stairs as 'buff applyers', then, I'd guess? Ingenious. Still though - even if you got this to work reliably (which shouldn't be *that* hard, even though it'll look ugly), you
A) couldn't put stairs above eachother
B) couldn't put stairs from a first floor to a second floor over an area that's walkable on the ground floor
C) couldn't control weapons fire; units on the first floor will be able to hit units on the third floor and such.
D) couldn't control the doodads; you'd need to hide floors with triggers when walking around on different floors and the likes. This would be a pain to do at the very least. Never mind having multiple units on multiple floors, when you'd have to delve into what unit is selected in order to determine what floors should be hidden.
So yeah; even if you got it to work after all the hassle, it would still be a scenery-only thing for an RPG or such as combat inside such a building would be nigh impossible to recreate. Maybe in an FPS it'd work, but that's it.
Wouldn't it be possible to set a trigger so that when unit A enters a region, to increase his height gradually or apply a floating at X height buff to him? I mean sure, it would mean some of the multi story buildings would be unusable, but what you reckon?
well basically whatever Mozared said. Theres that issue of overlapping lol. Not entirely impossible; as someone figured out how to show/hide actors for certain players (it was Renee i think, its somewhere in the resource section). However, It may not even be worth the work as that system itself would take dayss to make and debug. Better off making each floor on different parts of the map :P
Wow, that got a lot of people talking.. lol. Right now its just the illusion of height so I could map everything out, but I was intending on doing as someone mentioned, height by triggers and using regions & validators to "describe" what level they were on and what level they could shoot. Like what madlibrarian suggested, each stair would actually lower or heighten depending on your previous height, that way you wouldn't get the glitchy movements if you decided to switch directions. Validator's would keep units from hitting those on multiple levels (since it was going to be a TPS mouse-click trace line system), but yes sticking multiple staircases would result in some glitchy substance, but I think that could be fixed—then again it's also 7:40am and I'm not truly awake =P. Hopefully I answered some questions, but I actually need to go to volunteering =X bbl.
Currently those units are just set up on different heights so that I could make all of the floors, on the same level, at the same height. Sadly there's about 500 doodads PER building, so that sure to cause some havoc to lower end computers >.<! Far clip would not be allowable, though you would have the ability to rotate your camera by 90 degrees so you could see all cardinal directions. Overlapping and using custom occlusion was something I've been pondering for awhile and I'm still debating as to how to go about it.
As far as I know, multi-pathing is impossible and it is not included in my current working theory =X . As far as I know, I think you would need to be a data god to pull that off—so yeah my map would be a series of illusions. The roads are Rubble Wall Corners (at x: 500, y: 500, z: 500 scale) and pushed under the ground until only the top is showing. The white markings are Ground Props that have been scaled accordingly and made white, and of course will be the first thing to go when I decide to cut down on doodad numbers.
Exactly, stairs would apply buffs that would in turn check on or off validators (i.e level one is considered ground and level two is considered air). I'll try to answer
A) Once I think about it some more, its been a hectic day so far.
B) You could make under stairs walkable, except for the first region under the first stair (going from the first to the second floor)—making each region (and its trigger) ask conditionally what the units current height is within a range and if it is not within that range do nothing and if it is lower or raise it accordingly. The first step is the only problem as it would ask whether their height is 0, which in this case it would be, thus raising their height to say .2 height, if they then where at a .2 height and exited the region, ultimately triggering the exit region trigger, they would then be reduced to a 0 height. If they walked under step three, the step would ask whether they were were coming from a height of .8 (the step above) or .4 (the step below), so a height of 0 would not cause the trigger to.. well.. trigger and change the units height. (I hope I stated this right haha)
C) Validators would ultimately eliminate this problem, and since it is a TPS using a different traceline technique there would be no need for a visible projectile so you would not see art effects moving through the ground or other doodads... Instead with an invisible projectile you would only see the art effects of it firing from the attacking unit and an art effect like blood on the hostile target that is hit by the invisible projectile.
D) Yeah, this is my current problem I'm dealing with, is whether to use the actor hiding like librarian said or to search for another way. Either way, its going to be a gigantic pain no doubt, but I saw that from the beginning. This was more a project to test the waters and hope it works in the way I wish it would.
RPG's and grenades I originally saw as a problem, but again you can change hero abilities with triggers due to their heights (so grenade ability 1 throws a grenade at height 1, grenade ability 2 at height 2, etc.) again another pain, but artistic and playable environments on different floors I think are still entirely possible by using that method.
Could you use buff for heigh and detection of heigh? I mean here, you got 3 lvl (what ever the number here). The units is a ground unit and stay ground. The only thing that change is the heigh via the closer he is front a point, the more he is closer the more he is higher or lower.
AND, that's what I don't know if it could works... Make a buff for eatch heighs. If the unit A is on lvl 0, he has lvl 0 buff. If another unit B is on level 2, he has lvl 2 buff. If unit A try to attack unit B, he can't cause he is higher and cause the buff unallow lvl 0 to shoot lvl 2. Can you do that? Make a unit can't attack a certain unit cause he got a special buff? If it works somehow, this mean it can works with many heigh as well. A unit that move from lvl 0 to lvl 1, the buff will change, then he can go from lvl 1 to lvl 2. If technically the lvl 2 is directly above the lvl 0, there would be a problem. But if the trigger that set the heigh detect the buff lvl 2, the unit won't be teleported to lvl 0. He will only be allowed to move up or down and not skip.
To make sure a unit doesn't fly elsewhere, you make a small pathing around your building and you're fine.
Everything would be related to buff to detect where is the unit. Could it works?
Yeah sorta like that, the "buff" would ultimately change what the unit is considered in validators. So really you would be more dependent upon the validators already build into starcraft to help you make certain units attackable and unattackable.
So say in region 1 right below a staircase, the enemy is given the temporary validator of "ground" right at the foot of the stairs. On the top of stairs themselves is a marine considered "stairs," and on the next floor there is a marine given the validator "floortwo." The unit's weapon (his weapon ability to attack) would change per region however.
The marine on the stairs is allowed to attack those individuals with the validator "stairs," since he is on them and "ground" since he should ultimately be able to see the unit at the bottom of the stairs (Weapon Ability 1: Can only attack units with validators "ground" and "stairs"— like a marauder can only attack those units that are considered as "ground" validated [aka why they cannot attack air]).
The marine with the "floortwo" validator would be given the ability to attack units with the validators "floortwo" and "stairs," but would not be given the ability to attack units with the validator of "ground" (Weapon Ability 2: Can only attack units with validators "floortwo" and "stairs").
Triggers would also check height requirements to give certain validator buffs, particularly helpful if your region overlaps the main area of your first floor, second floor, third floor, etc.
That would eliminate the need the check whether or not, with triggers, if unit A could attack unit B depending on whether or not they have certain buffs on them. Instead, the game would do the "buff checking" for you and which attack ability you had would determine whether or not you could attack certain units in specific regions with their respective buff-given validators. By god, I think I confused myself while writing this lol. Sorry if it was unclear or my post took a different direction from your question.
Here is a Cave entrance I made for this one. Got the idea from the Oxina lair place in wow that i did bout 2 years back. Nothing too special, just want to continue to participate in these at least every other one :)
Looks pretty good. I've got a few suggestions though. Maybe consider lining the rock walls of the cliff with a rock texture, then tinting the actual rocks to match the color of the texture. I'd recommend a pretty dark, maybe blueish colored rock texture. I'd suggest a combination of Shakuras Rock and Shakuras Rock Rough. Right now, there's a painfully sharp contrast between the red rock and blue ground. Making them a bit more similar would help ease that transition, and the rock texture lining would perfect it. Also, some mist would do well, as would a few red omni lights for atmosphere. I'd also change the lighting to be a bit darker (lowering the exposure to about 0.6 would be good for this situation, and maybe lower specularity a tad, and increase emissive by about 0.5), and remember to deslect everything before taking a screenshot! :P
@Zolstice: Go
Wouldn't it be possible to set a trigger so that when unit A enters a region, to increase his height gradually or apply a floating at X height buff to him? I mean sure, it would mean some of the multi story buildings would be unusable, but what you reckon?
@madlibrarian: Go
You mean using the stairs as 'buff applyers', then, I'd guess? Ingenious. Still though - even if you got this to work reliably (which shouldn't be *that* hard, even though it'll look ugly), you
A) couldn't put stairs above eachother
B) couldn't put stairs from a first floor to a second floor over an area that's walkable on the ground floor
C) couldn't control weapons fire; units on the first floor will be able to hit units on the third floor and such.
D) couldn't control the doodads; you'd need to hide floors with triggers when walking around on different floors and the likes. This would be a pain to do at the very least. Never mind having multiple units on multiple floors, when you'd have to delve into what unit is selected in order to determine what floors should be hidden.
So yeah; even if you got it to work after all the hassle, it would still be a scenery-only thing for an RPG or such as combat inside such a building would be nigh impossible to recreate. Maybe in an FPS it'd work, but that's it.
@Mozared: Go
Looking at the first screenshot it doesn't look like Foxtail's meaning multi-layer pathing, just the illusion of it, but if not i'm curious too :)
@F0xtail: Go
What did you use to make those roads?
well basically whatever Mozared said. Theres that issue of overlapping lol. Not entirely impossible; as someone figured out how to show/hide actors for certain players (it was Renee i think, its somewhere in the resource section). However, It may not even be worth the work as that system itself would take dayss to make and debug. Better off making each floor on different parts of the map :P
@SheogorathSC: Go
yeah, for an illusion id say its pretty brilliant. With pathing it would be overkill :D
Wow, that got a lot of people talking.. lol. Right now its just the illusion of height so I could map everything out, but I was intending on doing as someone mentioned, height by triggers and using regions & validators to "describe" what level they were on and what level they could shoot. Like what madlibrarian suggested, each stair would actually lower or heighten depending on your previous height, that way you wouldn't get the glitchy movements if you decided to switch directions. Validator's would keep units from hitting those on multiple levels (since it was going to be a TPS mouse-click trace line system), but yes sticking multiple staircases would result in some glitchy substance, but I think that could be fixed—then again it's also 7:40am and I'm not truly awake =P. Hopefully I answered some questions, but I actually need to go to volunteering =X bbl.
@Zolstice: Go
Currently those units are just set up on different heights so that I could make all of the floors, on the same level, at the same height. Sadly there's about 500 doodads PER building, so that sure to cause some havoc to lower end computers >.<! Far clip would not be allowable, though you would have the ability to rotate your camera by 90 degrees so you could see all cardinal directions. Overlapping and using custom occlusion was something I've been pondering for awhile and I'm still debating as to how to go about it.
@madlibrarian: Go
That's pretty much exactly my plan, but if my version works correctly all levels would be accessible.
@SheogorathSC: Go
As far as I know, multi-pathing is impossible and it is not included in my current working theory =X . As far as I know, I think you would need to be a data god to pull that off—so yeah my map would be a series of illusions. The roads are Rubble Wall Corners (at x: 500, y: 500, z: 500 scale) and pushed under the ground until only the top is showing. The white markings are Ground Props that have been scaled accordingly and made white, and of course will be the first thing to go when I decide to cut down on doodad numbers.
@Mozared: Go
Exactly, stairs would apply buffs that would in turn check on or off validators (i.e level one is considered ground and level two is considered air). I'll try to answer A) Once I think about it some more, its been a hectic day so far. B) You could make under stairs walkable, except for the first region under the first stair (going from the first to the second floor)—making each region (and its trigger) ask conditionally what the units current height is within a range and if it is not within that range do nothing and if it is lower or raise it accordingly. The first step is the only problem as it would ask whether their height is 0, which in this case it would be, thus raising their height to say .2 height, if they then where at a .2 height and exited the region, ultimately triggering the exit region trigger, they would then be reduced to a 0 height. If they walked under step three, the step would ask whether they were were coming from a height of .8 (the step above) or .4 (the step below), so a height of 0 would not cause the trigger to.. well.. trigger and change the units height. (I hope I stated this right haha) C) Validators would ultimately eliminate this problem, and since it is a TPS using a different traceline technique there would be no need for a visible projectile so you would not see art effects moving through the ground or other doodads... Instead with an invisible projectile you would only see the art effects of it firing from the attacking unit and an art effect like blood on the hostile target that is hit by the invisible projectile. D) Yeah, this is my current problem I'm dealing with, is whether to use the actor hiding like librarian said or to search for another way. Either way, its going to be a gigantic pain no doubt, but I saw that from the beginning. This was more a project to test the waters and hope it works in the way I wish it would.
RPG's and grenades I originally saw as a problem, but again you can change hero abilities with triggers due to their heights (so grenade ability 1 throws a grenade at height 1, grenade ability 2 at height 2, etc.) again another pain, but artistic and playable environments on different floors I think are still entirely possible by using that method.
Some are better than others at terraining.
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Curse Premium@F0xtail: Go
Could you use buff for heigh and detection of heigh? I mean here, you got 3 lvl (what ever the number here). The units is a ground unit and stay ground. The only thing that change is the heigh via the closer he is front a point, the more he is closer the more he is higher or lower.
AND, that's what I don't know if it could works... Make a buff for eatch heighs. If the unit A is on lvl 0, he has lvl 0 buff. If another unit B is on level 2, he has lvl 2 buff. If unit A try to attack unit B, he can't cause he is higher and cause the buff unallow lvl 0 to shoot lvl 2. Can you do that? Make a unit can't attack a certain unit cause he got a special buff? If it works somehow, this mean it can works with many heigh as well. A unit that move from lvl 0 to lvl 1, the buff will change, then he can go from lvl 1 to lvl 2. If technically the lvl 2 is directly above the lvl 0, there would be a problem. But if the trigger that set the heigh detect the buff lvl 2, the unit won't be teleported to lvl 0. He will only be allowed to move up or down and not skip.
To make sure a unit doesn't fly elsewhere, you make a small pathing around your building and you're fine.
Everything would be related to buff to detect where is the unit. Could it works?
Working on projects:
@Scbroodsc2: Go
Yeah sorta like that, the "buff" would ultimately change what the unit is considered in validators. So really you would be more dependent upon the validators already build into starcraft to help you make certain units attackable and unattackable.
So say in region 1 right below a staircase, the enemy is given the temporary validator of "ground" right at the foot of the stairs. On the top of stairs themselves is a marine considered "stairs," and on the next floor there is a marine given the validator "floortwo." The unit's weapon (his weapon ability to attack) would change per region however.
The marine on the stairs is allowed to attack those individuals with the validator "stairs," since he is on them and "ground" since he should ultimately be able to see the unit at the bottom of the stairs (Weapon Ability 1: Can only attack units with validators "ground" and "stairs"— like a marauder can only attack those units that are considered as "ground" validated [aka why they cannot attack air]).
The marine with the "floortwo" validator would be given the ability to attack units with the validators "floortwo" and "stairs," but would not be given the ability to attack units with the validator of "ground" (Weapon Ability 2: Can only attack units with validators "floortwo" and "stairs").
Triggers would also check height requirements to give certain validator buffs, particularly helpful if your region overlaps the main area of your first floor, second floor, third floor, etc.
That would eliminate the need the check whether or not, with triggers, if unit A could attack unit B depending on whether or not they have certain buffs on them. Instead, the game would do the "buff checking" for you and which attack ability you had would determine whether or not you could attack certain units in specific regions with their respective buff-given validators. By god, I think I confused myself while writing this lol. Sorry if it was unclear or my post took a different direction from your question.
Here is a Cave entrance I made for this one. Got the idea from the Oxina lair place in wow that i did bout 2 years back. Nothing too special, just want to continue to participate in these at least every other one :)
@joecab: Go
Ooh, I like that one - maybe you can make the dragons' forms a little bit more defined, but overall it's a great idea and great looks.
@joecab: Go
Who didn't think of Onixia's Lair when they read the exercise? :P
@joecab: Go
I really, really like that. Definitely reminds me of onyxia's lair in WoW :D Good job!
@joecab: Go
Looks pretty good. I've got a few suggestions though. Maybe consider lining the rock walls of the cliff with a rock texture, then tinting the actual rocks to match the color of the texture. I'd recommend a pretty dark, maybe blueish colored rock texture. I'd suggest a combination of Shakuras Rock and Shakuras Rock Rough. Right now, there's a painfully sharp contrast between the red rock and blue ground. Making them a bit more similar would help ease that transition, and the rock texture lining would perfect it. Also, some mist would do well, as would a few red omni lights for atmosphere. I'd also change the lighting to be a bit darker (lowering the exposure to about 0.6 would be good for this situation, and maybe lower specularity a tad, and increase emissive by about 0.5), and remember to deslect everything before taking a screenshot! :P
Anyway, those are just my suggestions. :)