If you can't work within the parameters and provide what he's asking, why bother trying in the first place? I find it rather sad that instead of trying to find solutions for an appropriate map-setting, your sacrificing quality.
nah Actually I can share what I want to ask him if he is willing to try :P
But I need to know Why the size is set the way it is. If It can be changed as long as the playable arena is the same size then I can make a great map, where the players can choose which arena they would like to play in.
so what I did was come up with 4 arenas 1 being the original that I think could all work possibly. that have different layouts, If all he wants is a re-imaging of his current I can do that too :P i just want to know what HE prefers lol.
So what I told him was I can make ALL of these in a single 256 x 256(actual size would be a bit smaller) or I can make any one of these for him, Whatever he likes :P.
Like i said when I am sleepy or Sick I sound like a total asshole even though I dont mean to be haha.
First of all, 4 maps on a big terrain will actually cause lag, Sc2 renders everything you don't see even if its off map, so any doodads or units or what ever would just add to the lag that MA already experiences.
and for this reason, I wouldn't want 4 terrains to choose from.
top left terrain - Classic terrain, would love to see someone remake it, new textures, possible new side areas and even mid if you wanna experiment.
top right terrain - probably the one i'm most interested in seeing down on paper although the xel naga cliffs may encourage too much fighting on them rather than the mid, that all depends on how they are build i suppose.
bottom left terrain - would need to be alot bigger to actually be good, considering the current MA has the merc compounds that are about 7 range away from the cliffs, I don't see this actually being able to be built and be viable to be competitive and fair.
bottom right terrain - Circle Marine Arena, would be really really awesome, although I feel like it would have ALOT of wasted space, This would be epic if it could work, although, not seeing how it would work without alot of wasted space.
Current map is 96x96
Old map was 114x114 and because of the extra size, it caused a bit more lag.
Edit: Some of the terrain objects rotated themselves :P just noticed in the picture, but i have already gone back and edited it 5 times so Thats minor enough :P the Player 1s base (red) is perfect.
Yo I made a new one, which I personally think looks tons better. And this one is COMPLETELY even.
I went with the space platform, With a Clover shape, using the Top Right in the picture above as inspiration.
Listening to your notes, I discouraged Fighting on the ramps While Making it easy to navigate.
Hope you enjoy :D
oh and I went with a tad more protossy Style to this one.
There IS a skybox, but my editor doesnt show it, and my editor also shows broken lighting making it appear that there are blotches of different textures but there isnt.
ALSO: There are only 1 DOODAD on this map, I think this one looks good without them, so you wont have the lag of all those trees from your previous one. If you wish to add them, then you can go for it :P
I changed the ramps, So the units have to walk 6.5 or 7 spaces(hard to count Part of squares :P), to get to the ramp, I also believe that this ramp style Forces the players to Engage in early Fights with their Neighbores to Remove the Rubble.
I was watching some old youtube videos featuring your old map and I noticed that it had a lot of terrain objects. This may account for the lag spikes that forced you to reduce the maps size from 114 to 96 amongst other things. I believe I read a thread on this forum about terrain objects causing horrific lag.I believe one of the maps that I am working on is slightly over 128 x128. I'll will post a picture later. It is essentially the same layout only I restructured the cliffs and as opposed to having a raised centered I have one that is lowered. If you stress test the map it should be okay. I am trying to limit the amount of doodads I use as well as maximizing the amount of space that can be used given the fact that this map is about massing a giant death ball. There is enough space in the center for shops however with the way I restructured the cliffs shops can be placed. I am going to finish the layout for the standard Marine Arena map 2marrow before I decorate it to get your opinion on the layout.
I had a quick play test of MA on your map, and the bases are wayyy to small, it was quite hard to fit in the merc compounds without being to vulnerable.
I actually could sit a siege tank on a cliff and kill a command centre from the cliff with it, that being said, it wouldn't work against decent players but still, we try to balance around for everyone.
I loved the theme and the middle area felt nice, but the xel naga cliffs were just too large to make enough space for the bases.
The lag is mainly just due to the fact of how many units we had on the field at one time, and sc2 slows down the game for everyone to almost match the person with the slowest computer, which on NA servers, it seems that alot of people have out dated computers.
That being said, I'm accepting all entries and will play test on maps I like.
@Everyone
Please post before the deadline with details about your map or a screenshot/rough layout, nobody will get this right the first time unless they have played alot of Marine Arena as well as being half decent at it.
I just wanted to add some clarification too to go allow with that romexiom said about lag. While some specific doodads can cause lag for the most part they do not add a great deal of lag including with terrains objects. Now there was one object, the trench i believe, that causes huge issues but its a bug and has to do with it replicating itself an extreme amount of times. From what i saw actually is marine arena maps included more and more objects without any large changes to terraining. Environmental doodads like weather on the other had can be very graphics heavy or for that fact many of the particle based doodads like fire. Its the reason why there are less choices for settting on texturing but much more on other effects that are dependent on players comps.
I hope your setting a large number of submissions, but i wouldn't necesarily cut out initial maps as there are some really good mapper out there especially for melee. Even if one map isn't perfect, i would guess that it would be best to work with the author of the closest map to make the small modifications to make it perfect.
As for my own map i plan on submitting via pm around the 23rd as i have a break coming up. Will keep you posted.
I am going to post screen shots of the barebones map layout later... I just finished the initial layout. 2marrow afternoon I want to work on pathing l.o.s. and ambient lighting of the map. :3 I am really happy with the new layout. I have 2 map configurations. One with a raised center like the old map one with a lowered.I will PM you the map file but please don't post it for free download just yet
Here is the bare bones layout for the game board I have been working on. Later today and 2marrow I will be working on adding destructible objects, pathing, and los. Hopefull will have a map ready for testing 2marrow and finalize my entry by thanksgiving. If I win I will be more then happy to continue terraining for you guys.
Also I am not sure if the starting bases or too small but they can easily be extended outwards... In my next post I will add a place for the upgrade shops behind the main bases. I created a space platform skin for this map thats cool but I'm thinking that I'm going to go with the marine arena in the middle of the dessert approach like its a legit battle arena thats televised like smash craft or something. Plus Korhal is a dessert city planet anyways so it would only make sense.
-The mid has larger hill and chokes.
-The cliffs are accessible from the mid
-The bases are small but on high ground with HUGE ramp so it doesn't choke
-Map size is same as current iirc
-The mid has larger hill and chokes. -The cliffs are accessible from the mid -The bases are small but on high ground with HUGE ramp so it doesn't choke -Map size is same as current iirc
I love the texture design and how the center is arranged
Here :P I retextured and re did the terrain you already had, I added Light bridges if you dont like them then feel free to remove haha, everything is still on the 2nd level, but This is the last one i am making sooo i didnt feel like lowering everything 1 level :P Well hope you like it.
Once again there is a skybox but they dont show in my editor.
I have basically finished the pathing for ground units through adding destructible sandbags and debris. I also added a cool barrier thing created by thrikidosis and modified it so it would be a line of sight blocker in the cliff region. I plan on adding no fly zones for air units before my final entry.
I decided to change things up for the center and placed a lowered octagon. For the shops I chose to place supply depots to A) Go along with a terran themed arena, and B) to apply an interesting gaming mechanic. I was thinking that in order to use the shop you would have to capture and hold it for a 4 second duration before it can be raised and used. Alternatively the shops could be placed on lower ground. I was thinking that the center beacon could give high ground vision as well as heal up units.
After map optimization hopefully I could put the finishing touches on it and add neon lighting, destructible signs, explosive barrels a more doodads that will give the map personality like a terran battle arena in the center of a huge desert where they test combat strategies and new weapons.
@Taintedwisp: Go
If you can't work within the parameters and provide what he's asking, why bother trying in the first place? I find it rather sad that instead of trying to find solutions for an appropriate map-setting, your sacrificing quality.
@hobbidude: Go
nah Actually I can share what I want to ask him if he is willing to try :P
But I need to know Why the size is set the way it is. If It can be changed as long as the playable arena is the same size then I can make a great map, where the players can choose which arena they would like to play in.
so what I did was come up with 4 arenas 1 being the original that I think could all work possibly. that have different layouts, If all he wants is a re-imaging of his current I can do that too :P i just want to know what HE prefers lol.
So what I told him was I can make ALL of these in a single 256 x 256(actual size would be a bit smaller) or I can make any one of these for him, Whatever he likes :P.
Like i said when I am sleepy or Sick I sound like a total asshole even though I dont mean to be haha.
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x171/11shadowwolf/MultiMarinearena.png
@Taintedwisp: Go
First of all, 4 maps on a big terrain will actually cause lag, Sc2 renders everything you don't see even if its off map, so any doodads or units or what ever would just add to the lag that MA already experiences.
and for this reason, I wouldn't want 4 terrains to choose from.
top left terrain - Classic terrain, would love to see someone remake it, new textures, possible new side areas and even mid if you wanna experiment.
top right terrain - probably the one i'm most interested in seeing down on paper although the xel naga cliffs may encourage too much fighting on them rather than the mid, that all depends on how they are build i suppose.
bottom left terrain - would need to be alot bigger to actually be good, considering the current MA has the merc compounds that are about 7 range away from the cliffs, I don't see this actually being able to be built and be viable to be competitive and fair.
bottom right terrain - Circle Marine Arena, would be really really awesome, although I feel like it would have ALOT of wasted space, This would be epic if it could work, although, not seeing how it would work without alot of wasted space.
Current map is 96x96 Old map was 114x114 and because of the extra size, it caused a bit more lag.
please keep this in mind.
@romexiom: Go
Thanks for the Exact Information I needed :P.
Ill see what I can whip up tomorrow. or this weekend.
@Mozared: Go
Edit: Some of the terrain objects rotated themselves :P just noticed in the picture, but i have already gone back and edited it 5 times so Thats minor enough :P the Player 1s base (red) is perfect.
Yo I made a new one, which I personally think looks tons better. And this one is COMPLETELY even.
I went with the space platform, With a Clover shape, using the Top Right in the picture above as inspiration.
Listening to your notes, I discouraged Fighting on the ramps While Making it easy to navigate.
Hope you enjoy :D
oh and I went with a tad more protossy Style to this one.
There IS a skybox, but my editor doesnt show it, and my editor also shows broken lighting making it appear that there are blotches of different textures but there isnt.
ALSO: There are only 1 DOODAD on this map, I think this one looks good without them, so you wont have the lag of all those trees from your previous one. If you wish to add them, then you can go for it :P
I think I'll try my hand at this.
Okay I went back and made some minor edits.
I changed the ramps, So the units have to walk 6.5 or 7 spaces(hard to count Part of squares :P), to get to the ramp, I also believe that this ramp style Forces the players to Engage in early Fights with their Neighbores to Remove the Rubble.
I was watching some old youtube videos featuring your old map and I noticed that it had a lot of terrain objects. This may account for the lag spikes that forced you to reduce the maps size from 114 to 96 amongst other things. I believe I read a thread on this forum about terrain objects causing horrific lag.I believe one of the maps that I am working on is slightly over 128 x128. I'll will post a picture later. It is essentially the same layout only I restructured the cliffs and as opposed to having a raised centered I have one that is lowered. If you stress test the map it should be okay. I am trying to limit the amount of doodads I use as well as maximizing the amount of space that can be used given the fact that this map is about massing a giant death ball. There is enough space in the center for shops however with the way I restructured the cliffs shops can be placed. I am going to finish the layout for the standard Marine Arena map 2marrow before I decorate it to get your opinion on the layout.
@Taintedwisp: Go
I had a quick play test of MA on your map, and the bases are wayyy to small, it was quite hard to fit in the merc compounds without being to vulnerable.
I actually could sit a siege tank on a cliff and kill a command centre from the cliff with it, that being said, it wouldn't work against decent players but still, we try to balance around for everyone.
I loved the theme and the middle area felt nice, but the xel naga cliffs were just too large to make enough space for the bases.
Rome.
@michaelknives: Go
The lag is mainly just due to the fact of how many units we had on the field at one time, and sc2 slows down the game for everyone to almost match the person with the slowest computer, which on NA servers, it seems that alot of people have out dated computers.
That being said, I'm accepting all entries and will play test on maps I like.
@Everyone
Please post before the deadline with details about your map or a screenshot/rough layout, nobody will get this right the first time unless they have played alot of Marine Arena as well as being half decent at it.
<3 you all! :)
@michaelknives: Go
I just wanted to add some clarification too to go allow with that romexiom said about lag. While some specific doodads can cause lag for the most part they do not add a great deal of lag including with terrains objects. Now there was one object, the trench i believe, that causes huge issues but its a bug and has to do with it replicating itself an extreme amount of times. From what i saw actually is marine arena maps included more and more objects without any large changes to terraining. Environmental doodads like weather on the other had can be very graphics heavy or for that fact many of the particle based doodads like fire. Its the reason why there are less choices for settting on texturing but much more on other effects that are dependent on players comps.
@romexiom: Go
I hope your setting a large number of submissions, but i wouldn't necesarily cut out initial maps as there are some really good mapper out there especially for melee. Even if one map isn't perfect, i would guess that it would be best to work with the author of the closest map to make the small modifications to make it perfect.
As for my own map i plan on submitting via pm around the 23rd as i have a break coming up. Will keep you posted.
I am going to post screen shots of the barebones map layout later... I just finished the initial layout. 2marrow afternoon I want to work on pathing l.o.s. and ambient lighting of the map. :3 I am really happy with the new layout. I have 2 map configurations. One with a raised center like the old map one with a lowered.I will PM you the map file but please don't post it for free download just yet
Here is the bare bones layout for the game board I have been working on. Later today and 2marrow I will be working on adding destructible objects, pathing, and los. Hopefull will have a map ready for testing 2marrow and finalize my entry by thanksgiving. If I win I will be more then happy to continue terraining for you guys.
Also I am not sure if the starting bases or too small but they can easily be extended outwards... In my next post I will add a place for the upgrade shops behind the main bases. I created a space platform skin for this map thats cool but I'm thinking that I'm going to go with the marine arena in the middle of the dessert approach like its a legit battle arena thats televised like smash craft or something. Plus Korhal is a dessert city planet anyways so it would only make sense.
Just to throw this out there, if you like more than one of the maps, you could rotate the terrains.
Edit: I like that idea Michael (I also like to save space in threads) However I do see how that would complicate things
It would defeat the purpose of the competition to have multiple 1st prize winners. Perhaps having a 1st. 2nd, and 3rd place would be enough.
Here is a map I made for MA a while back:
-The mid has larger hill and chokes.
-The cliffs are accessible from the mid
-The bases are small but on high ground with HUGE ramp so it doesn't choke
-Map size is same as current iirc
I love the texture design and how the center is arranged
thank you much
we actually had this very map working in an online test about 1 year ago.
i think i lost the map tho... just have the terrain left
Here :P I retextured and re did the terrain you already had, I added Light bridges if you dont like them then feel free to remove haha, everything is still on the 2nd level, but This is the last one i am making sooo i didnt feel like lowering everything 1 level :P Well hope you like it.
Once again there is a skybox but they dont show in my editor.
Development Update:
I have basically finished the pathing for ground units through adding destructible sandbags and debris. I also added a cool barrier thing created by thrikidosis and modified it so it would be a line of sight blocker in the cliff region. I plan on adding no fly zones for air units before my final entry.
I decided to change things up for the center and placed a lowered octagon. For the shops I chose to place supply depots to A) Go along with a terran themed arena, and B) to apply an interesting gaming mechanic. I was thinking that in order to use the shop you would have to capture and hold it for a 4 second duration before it can be raised and used. Alternatively the shops could be placed on lower ground. I was thinking that the center beacon could give high ground vision as well as heal up units.
After map optimization hopefully I could put the finishing touches on it and add neon lighting, destructible signs, explosive barrels a more doodads that will give the map personality like a terran battle arena in the center of a huge desert where they test combat strategies and new weapons.