made a persistent made a search area made an apply force.
set the target filter to any enemies. I continually keep raising the force number (effect amount to be precise) and no matter how high i raise it the enemies only move about 3mm away from my unit and then don't attack me anymore. What exactly is going on here?
I would like to see the units fly back a good distance and then come crawling back to attack me. Im not sure what's going on.
I had the same issue with knockback; I think apply force blows. Probably I don't know how to use it properly yet but after messing around with it, I just got tired of wasting my time and wrote a custom function for my knockback instead.
made a persistent made a search area made an apply force.
set the target filter to any enemies. I continually keep raising the force number (effect amount to be precise) and no matter how high i raise it the enemies only move about 3mm away from my unit and then don't attack me anymore. What exactly is going on here? I would like to see the units fly back a good distance and then come crawling back to attack me. Im not sure what's going on.
Persistent Effect (periodic) + Apply force =_= come on guys...
Zifoon I have that exact setup I just upped the duration of the persistent effect and set the apply force to 500 and it works, BUT it only is pushing the units back like 3milimeters each time it triggers. Isn't there a way to have them push back a greater distance at one time?
Xenrathe if you have it figured out to where you can push them back a certain distance that is better than 3mm please let me know Thank you
Etra you can try altering their units' mass to something really low and see if that works out. Force = Mass * Acceleration; if you lower the mass by 10, you should get a correspondingly 10x greater acceleration. Course if you increase Force by 10x, then acceleration should also go up by 10x and that is clearly not the case, which is why I said eff this and wrote my own knockback function (i.e. a trigger).
See attached image for trigger.
Lemme know if you have questions (or if altering mass works out for ya)
Zifoon I have that exact setup I just upped the duration of the persistent effect and set the apply force to 500 and it works, BUT it only is pushing the units back like 3milimeters each time it triggers. Isn't there a way to have them push back a greater distance at one time?
Xenrathe if you have it figured out to where you can push them back a certain distance that is better than 3mm please let me know Thank you
If you apply force effect every 0.1 seconds 3mm, it is equalization to 3 cm per 1 second. Keep applying it through persistent effect. If you want to push it even further, do it every 0.05 seconds. which would be 6 cm per 1 second. If you do it 0.01, well you get the point.
Alternatively you could use a trigger to move the unit instantly in a periodic trigger.
Changing a unit's acceleration doesn't have anything to do with the acceleration caused by a force.
But anyway Zifoon does have the right of it. To really use an Apply Force successfully, you need to create a persistent effect that will use an Apply Force effect a large number of times via Periodic Effect field. A single Apply Force will not work (or would never work for me, anyway).
As I said though I could never get the Apply Force/persistent effect combination to give me the type of knockback that I desired so I wrote my own, which works beautifully.
Changing a unit's acceleration doesn't have anything to do with the acceleration caused by a force.
But anyway Zifoon does have the right of it. To really use an Apply Force successfully, you need to create a persistent effect that will use an Apply Force effect a large number of times via Periodic Effect field. A single Apply Force will not work (or would never work for me, anyway).
As I said though I could never get the Apply Force/persistent effect combination to give me the type of knockback that I desired so I wrote my own, which works beautifully.
Actually it does, well it's one of the factor. If you increase speed + acceleration, apply force moves the unit much much further. This is actually a method vortex uses so units under 2 movement speed would be sucked into the vortex at the same time as any other unit. Apply Force literally means F=ma in GE.
Try to apply for to low speed and high speed unit. You will be pleasantly surprised.
I figured this bastard out. Can't believe I didn't think of it sooner.
Ok, so Blizzard intended that the apply force number would only run a check to see if a unit would move or not (at least this is what I figure) so if a unit is heavy enough and there wasn't enough force applied then the unit would not move. But if your unit is light enough then it move your unit only a preset distance (which happens to be very minimal). So here is how you do it. On your "create persistent you have to set your periods to like 100 (or even 1000 if you want to see faster movement) and your period duration to like .01 or .001.
So what ends up happening is the force is applied 1000 times in a small duration. Just check it out and the units now move back in one swoop. going to keep testing but this is a start.
I figured this bastard out. Can't believe I didn't think of it sooner.
Ok, so Blizzard intended that the apply force number would only run a check to see if a unit would move or not (at least this is what I figure) so if a unit is heavy enough and there wasn't enough force applied then the unit would not move. But if your unit is light enough then it move your unit only a preset distance (which happens to be very minimal). So here is how you do it. On your "create persistent you have to set your periods to like 100 (or even 1000 if you want to see faster movement) and your period duration to like .01 or .001.
So what ends up happening is the force is applied 1000 times in a small duration. Just check it out and the units now move back in one swoop. going to keep testing but this is a start.
yeah that's right... it was you who figured it out
Don't tell me you were using persistent behavior with 1 period... Not cool man
Why else would you use a persistent behavior?
Ohhhh that makes sense. Rather counter-intuitive though.
I'll stick with my function (which simulates friction unlike the apply force) but that is definitely good to know.
How is it counter-intuitive? It's obvious persistent behavior uses more than 1 period.
Have you looked at apply force even once? It simulates friction, there is a field dedicated to it.
Very nice Zifoon. Im going to add an effect (apply behavior to the persistent which increases movement speed by 20) that lasts for short duration so that the knockback matches the animation.
Very nice Zifoon. Im going to add an effect (apply behavior to the persistent which increases movement speed by 20) that lasts for short duration so that the knockback matches the animation.
Yes, I got a gold star sticker.
I foresee a problem with my method though. Faster unit will move faster and travel a great distance while slower unit will move slower and travel a short distance . What I would do is create a set of effects with validators. High Speed, mid speed and low speed. Effect for low speed unit will have more frequent period and effect for high speed unit will have less frequent period.
However, if you don't really care about like 0.5 unit distance difference then it really doesn't matter.
It's counter-intuitive (the apply force effect, not the persistent effect) because its not applying a force. It's running a complex validator check against the units acceleration & mass and then applying an individualized variable force (for each unit affected, dependent on that units speed & acceleration & apparently completely independent of the units mass). That's like saying if I punched a track runner, he should fly farther than a little kid because he has higher acceleration and speed. How does that make sense?
As for the friction where? I see Mass Fraction but certainly no friction.
Ended up having to create 2 (search area) effects to pull it off 1 for apply force the other for add speed multiplyer. It works perfect. Actually I need to adjust it a little bit the units go flying of the screen so fast they almost disappear. Had to walk quite a distance to locate one that I threw off. LOL thanks for your help guys.
Yes, I got a gold star sticker.
I foresee a problem with my method though. Faster unit will move faster and travel a great distance while slower unit will move slower and travel a short distance . What I would do is create a set of effects with validators. High Speed, mid speed and low speed. Effect for low speed unit will have more frequent period and effect for high speed unit will have less frequent period.
However, if you don't really care about like 0.5 unit distance difference then it really doesn't matter.
Naw in the long run the units will all have a set movement speed equal to one another so it will work out.
It's counter-intuitive (the apply force effect, not the persistent effect) because its not applying a force. It's running a complex validator check against the units acceleration mass and then applying an individualized variable force (for each unit affected, dependent on that units speed acceleration). That's like saying if I punched a track runner, he should fly farther than a little kid because he has higher acceleration and speed. How does that make sense?
As for the friction where? I see Mass Fraction but certainly no friction.
Are you serious? So a force that pushes the kid (from behind right?) removes acceleration on the kid?
Of course higher acceleration/speed will cause the runner will fly farther than a little kid.
Runner's distance (x) at a certain time frame will change faster than the kid at certain distance because one has more speed (x') agree with this? OK now they fly up (due to a force), what is the distance traveled before they hit the ground (when y = 0)? At the time frame when they hit the ground which runner's distance (x) is larger? (think! runner's distance change faster, which means longer distance difference between the two as time goes by)
When a force is applied, the object's speed does not magically become the force's speed, Speed does not magically disappear, the object just gains more acceleration and thus speed (deceleration if the force is applied in the opposite direction of the velocity of the object). if you push a push cart that is already moving, it moves faster. If I have a push cart with even slower speed and if I decide to push it, it will move faster. However, the first card will always move faster. Oh wait... Isn't this what apply force does?
Mass friction? That's all you see? Thanks for answering your own question.
I meant, that if I applied the same force punch (let's say 300 Newtons) to the kid (weighs 50 kg let's say) and to the track runner (weighs 100 kg let's say), then the track runner would fly farther because he has the ability to run faster on his own. Clearly this is not true (with given figures and simplification, the kid would accelerate away from me @ 6 m/s^2, the runner @ 3 m/s^2), but this is how apply force acts.
Also it's mass fraction, not friction. That field changes the percent of a units mass that is used.
I meant, that if I applied the same force punch (let's say 300 Newtons) to the kid (weighs 50 kg let's say) and to the track runner (weighs 100 kg let's say), then the track runner would fly farther because he has the ability to run faster on his own. Clearly this is not true (with given figures and simplification, the kid would accelerate away from me @ 6 m/s^2, the runner @ 3 m/s^2), but this is how apply force acts.
Also it's mass fraction, not friction. That field changes the percent of a units mass that is used.
It is still friction and acts like it. Read what you said before and you will understand.
We are not talking about mass read what you wrote not one you just edited, in my post I quoted you. Now Explain that to me. Nevertheless the acceleration and speed does change the distance traveled after a force is applied. Which is not "Counter-intuitive" Another thing, you are still avoiding the runner's acceleration when the runner is applied with the force. You are assuming they are not moving at the time when the force is applied, which is contrary to what you have said earlier and I quote "That's like saying if I punched a track runner, he should fly farther than a little kid because he has higher acceleration and speed. How does that make sense?"
made a persistent made a search area made an apply force.
set the target filter to any enemies. I continually keep raising the force number (effect amount to be precise) and no matter how high i raise it the enemies only move about 3mm away from my unit and then don't attack me anymore. What exactly is going on here? I would like to see the units fly back a good distance and then come crawling back to attack me. Im not sure what's going on.
@Etravex: Go
I had the same issue with knockback; I think apply force blows. Probably I don't know how to use it properly yet but after messing around with it, I just got tired of wasting my time and wrote a custom function for my knockback instead.
Do you want it?
Persistent Effect (periodic) + Apply force =_= come on guys...
@zifoon: Go
Zifoon I have that exact setup I just upped the duration of the persistent effect and set the apply force to 500 and it works, BUT it only is pushing the units back like 3milimeters each time it triggers. Isn't there a way to have them push back a greater distance at one time?
Xenrathe if you have it figured out to where you can push them back a certain distance that is better than 3mm please let me know Thank you
@Etravex: Go
Etra you can try altering their units' mass to something really low and see if that works out. Force = Mass * Acceleration; if you lower the mass by 10, you should get a correspondingly 10x greater acceleration. Course if you increase Force by 10x, then acceleration should also go up by 10x and that is clearly not the case, which is why I said eff this and wrote my own knockback function (i.e. a trigger).
See attached image for trigger.
Lemme know if you have questions (or if altering mass works out for ya)
F = ma
Then you'd have to increase unit's acceleration, changing unit's stats is not cool x_x
If you apply force effect every 0.1 seconds 3mm, it is equalization to 3 cm per 1 second. Keep applying it through persistent effect. If you want to push it even further, do it every 0.05 seconds. which would be 6 cm per 1 second. If you do it 0.01, well you get the point.
Alternatively you could use a trigger to move the unit instantly in a periodic trigger.
Changing a unit's acceleration doesn't have anything to do with the acceleration caused by a force.
But anyway Zifoon does have the right of it. To really use an Apply Force successfully, you need to create a persistent effect that will use an Apply Force effect a large number of times via Periodic Effect field. A single Apply Force will not work (or would never work for me, anyway).
As I said though I could never get the Apply Force/persistent effect combination to give me the type of knockback that I desired so I wrote my own, which works beautifully.
Actually it does, well it's one of the factor. If you increase speed + acceleration, apply force moves the unit much much further. This is actually a method vortex uses so units under 2 movement speed would be sucked into the vortex at the same time as any other unit. Apply Force literally means F=ma in GE.
Try to apply for to low speed and high speed unit. You will be pleasantly surprised.
@xenrathe: Go
I figured this bastard out. Can't believe I didn't think of it sooner.
Ok, so Blizzard intended that the apply force number would only run a check to see if a unit would move or not (at least this is what I figure) so if a unit is heavy enough and there wasn't enough force applied then the unit would not move. But if your unit is light enough then it move your unit only a preset distance (which happens to be very minimal). So here is how you do it. On your "create persistent you have to set your periods to like 100 (or even 1000 if you want to see faster movement) and your period duration to like .01 or .001.
So what ends up happening is the force is applied 1000 times in a small duration. Just check it out and the units now move back in one swoop. going to keep testing but this is a start.
yeah that's right... it was you who figured it out
Don't tell me you were using persistent behavior with 1 period... Not cool man
Why else would you use a persistent behavior?
Oh I should have linked you to
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/development/map-development/3036-creating-an-aoe-knockback-effect/?post=2
my bad
@Etravex: Go
Ohhhh that makes sense. Rather counter-intuitive though.
I'll stick with my function (which simulates friction unlike the apply force) but that is definitely good to know.
How is it counter-intuitive? It's obvious persistent behavior uses more than 1 period.
Have you looked at apply force even once? It simulates friction, there is a field dedicated to it.
@zifoon: Go
Very nice Zifoon. Im going to add an effect (apply behavior to the persistent which increases movement speed by 20) that lasts for short duration so that the knockback matches the animation.
Yes, I got a gold star sticker.
I foresee a problem with my method though. Faster unit will move faster and travel a great distance while slower unit will move slower and travel a short distance . What I would do is create a set of effects with validators. High Speed, mid speed and low speed. Effect for low speed unit will have more frequent period and effect for high speed unit will have less frequent period.
However, if you don't really care about like 0.5 unit distance difference then it really doesn't matter.
@zifoon: Go
It's counter-intuitive (the apply force effect, not the persistent effect) because its not applying a force. It's running a complex validator check against the units acceleration & mass and then applying an individualized variable force (for each unit affected, dependent on that units speed & acceleration & apparently completely independent of the units mass). That's like saying if I punched a track runner, he should fly farther than a little kid because he has higher acceleration and speed. How does that make sense?
As for the friction where? I see Mass Fraction but certainly no friction.
Ended up having to create 2 (search area) effects to pull it off 1 for apply force the other for add speed multiplyer. It works perfect. Actually I need to adjust it a little bit the units go flying of the screen so fast they almost disappear. Had to walk quite a distance to locate one that I threw off. LOL thanks for your help guys.
Naw in the long run the units will all have a set movement speed equal to one another so it will work out.
Are you serious? So a force that pushes the kid (from behind right?) removes acceleration on the kid?
Of course higher acceleration/speed will cause the runner will fly farther than a little kid.
Runner's distance (x) at a certain time frame will change faster than the kid at certain distance because one has more speed (x') agree with this? OK now they fly up (due to a force), what is the distance traveled before they hit the ground (when y = 0)? At the time frame when they hit the ground which runner's distance (x) is larger? (think! runner's distance change faster, which means longer distance difference between the two as time goes by)
When a force is applied, the object's speed does not magically become the force's speed, Speed does not magically disappear, the object just gains more acceleration and thus speed (deceleration if the force is applied in the opposite direction of the velocity of the object). if you push a push cart that is already moving, it moves faster. If I have a push cart with even slower speed and if I decide to push it, it will move faster. However, the first card will always move faster. Oh wait... Isn't this what apply force does?
Mass friction? That's all you see? Thanks for answering your own question.
@zifoon: Go
:O
I meant, that if I applied the same force punch (let's say 300 Newtons) to the kid (weighs 50 kg let's say) and to the track runner (weighs 100 kg let's say), then the track runner would fly farther because he has the ability to run faster on his own. Clearly this is not true (with given figures and simplification, the kid would accelerate away from me @ 6 m/s^2, the runner @ 3 m/s^2), but this is how apply force acts.
Also it's mass fraction, not friction. That field changes the percent of a units mass that is used.
It is still friction and acts like it. Read what you said before and you will understand.
We are not talking about mass read what you wrote not one you just edited, in my post I quoted you. Now Explain that to me. Nevertheless the acceleration and speed does change the distance traveled after a force is applied. Which is not "Counter-intuitive" Another thing, you are still avoiding the runner's acceleration when the runner is applied with the force. You are assuming they are not moving at the time when the force is applied, which is contrary to what you have said earlier and I quote "That's like saying if I punched a track runner, he should fly farther than a little kid because he has higher acceleration and speed. How does that make sense?"
So does that make sense?