So I'm a bit confused on this issue. I've seen various tutorials, usually based on fairly simple units like the marine, where a unit is duplicated and the new custom unit is edited from there.
What is the difference between using the "Duplicate" option in the menu and doing a copy paste? I'm no database programmer and don't really understand what is going on behind the scenes. As such, I'm not really sure what I should do to correctly create a new unit based off another, or a very different new unit using the same models and animations.
I'm still very new to the data editor.
A unit in SC2 is usually a bunch of data objects, which are all linked together somehow.
C&P only copys one object at a time, so to C&P a unit completely, you need to copy each individual data object and re-link them all to the respective copied values.
Duplicate copys all linked objects and re-links them automatically, which can save you a lot of work. But it has disadvantages, too: Sometimes it misses some links and it always trys to copy objects, which you usually do not want to duplicate (for example if you duplicate the marine and just duplicate everything mindlessly, it will also create copies of the standard move and attack abilities etc)
Copy + paste a marine = you get the marine unit duplicated. But it has no actor, no weapon for itself, etc...
Duplicate allows you to choose what stuff you want to copy along with the marine. Normally you will want to copy the actor at least. When you hit ok, all of the things you picked are copied AND the computer automaticlly links them all together. So say you have an incredibly complicated ability with 50 inter-linked effects, and you want to make the same ability but have it do more damage. You would have to either copy all 50 of the effects and re-link them together or just duplicate 1 and check "duplicate all". Just don't ever copy and paste, it saves you a lot of confusion in the long run.
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Ideally when duplicating a unit you want to check off it's actor, effects, and weapons. Most of the time you will need to duplicate the rest, unless you are changing specifics. Most of the tutorials out there I find are the "lazy way" of showing people what exactly they need to understand and know to copy a unit. I suggest if you want to completely understand how and what are all of the parts of the basic data editor, you follow a tutorial to create a unit from scratch. It may be lengthily, but I found I learned the most about the data editor when I was first using the starcraft 2 editor.
I'll give you a link to some handy tutorials that I used to create a unit form scratch.
That would be excellent. Right now I see how to do something, but when I try to do it but a bit different in some way, I don't know what I'm doing. I got a barrel of fish and don't know how to fish for myself here.
Just a quickie then, if I wanted to make a copy of a unit with no weapons, abilities, upgrades, etc. just a moving copy of the unit, would I just copy and paste the unit and then set some of the standard abilities like move, stop, queue, and give it an actor? or should even a stripped down copy be duplicated?
Just a quickie then, if I wanted to make a copy of a unit with no weapons, abilities, upgrades, etc. just a moving copy of the unit, would I just copy and paste the unit and then set some of the standard abilities like move, stop, queue, and give it an actor? or should even a stripped down copy be duplicated?
Maybe you can emphasize on exactly what you are trying to do.
Even if you give a unit the ability to move and such doesn't mean it can or will. There are other things that you need to verify pending on what unit you are trying to copy. If you are, for example, trying to make a structure move, there are movement flags, movement speed, and things as such that you need to alter / add; on the other hand if you want to take just a regular unit, just for the model, and make it move, then you are best duplicating the actor only and remove anything that is not needed.
Well my eventual aim is to redo a number of units, but with entirely new versions of their weapons and abilities. As such I need the unit to be what it use to be, but with no weapons or abilities, or upgrades. Right now I am working on converting a BC to beam weapons, next will be a colossus with two independent simultaneous laser beams that track their target while they fire. In both cases the units should be the same other than weapons and such.
Side note: just watched/read those tutorials which helped clear up some of what makes a basic unit, though it seems all of them say to copy fields from your starting unit. I suppose that is so all those flags and such are already set, huh?
Right, copying from a base unit or base ability is fine, otherwise you would have to fill in allot of data that is standard. In some cases you can copy from, but other times thats not always the case. I would suggest you try to avoid this as much as possible, unless you are making a similar ability or unit, such as copying a base weapon from a stalker simply to alter the damage. (you will also find in some cases that copying from a base unit is not necessary, such as for making weapon effects and buttons)
As for what you are trying to do, I would duplicate their weapons, actors and effects. After that rename the duplicated items appropriately, ie Marine Weapon Copy -> (My Unit Name) Weapon. If needed be just remove the attack functionality from the unit until you are ready to add your special weapons.
u got Duplicating idea totally wrong. if you have ability with over 9000 linked effects and wanna same ability with same effects that do more dmg - you need duplicate ability and uncheck all except dmg effects and effects that linked with dmg.
cuz all that you uncheck - it will be in your ability too
same with you - when u copy unit and uncheck all abilities, actors, stupid weapons - you are like "mmmh, i'll get dummy unit ♥ ♥ ♥"
but if you uncheck all - it create copy of your unit with link to old abilities, so you need manually delete all this links (or create new from default template)
so examples:
i have Unit 1 what linked with Weapon 1
if i wanna make Unit 2 (same as Unit 1, but no weapon)
i duplicate Unit 1, uncheck Weapon 1 and in my new fresh Unit 2 i manually delete link to Weapon 1
if i wanna make Unit 2 (same as Unit 1, with same weapon)
i duplicate Unit 1 and again uncheck Weapon 1 cuz i wanna 2 units linked to 1 weapon.
1 more example - i wanna create Spartain Hellion with over 9000 dmg
what i should check when i duplicate hellion?
uncheck all abilities (new unit will have stanadt attack standart stop - thats good)
Actors:
seems like units linked to actors, not actors to units.
same with abilites - you link your ability to actor, not like wc3 u just make graphics for ability
so we duplicate them for our new unit, cuz old hellion actors linked to the old hellion and thats very hard to link actor with 2 hellions.
Effects - duplicate - we wanna new effects with over 9000 dmg
so check on all cuz they're linked with each other
Models - leave them alone (off) - duplicating models is not nessesary to you (you can change all visuals in duplicated actor)
Movers - off, we dont want second Ground Mover
Sounds - off, same as models
Turrets - idk what is it O_O so we can copy that
Upgrades - off, i hope you got why they're off (if not - cuz our hellion should be linked with old standart upgrades)
Validators - off
weapons - on (same as effects)
Most of your points are correct, but I think the way you present them are confusing, and will only distort what the OP is asking. But again, you are correct, zeldar wasn't on target. Yet your point about linking weapons are a bit more complicated and extensive for the purpose of what the OP is doing.
Jup but i hope OP will understand what im talking about and this topic will go to archive and new ppl who will want understand object system/duplicating system of Galaxy Editor will find this post through search
Units are not the top of this tree, actors are? Units and everything else eventually link to the actor?
Also, you can or can't reuse parts of things, such as having multiple units link to the same actor, or a weapon linked to multiple units?
It would seem that I can link a mover to a hundred different units or a model to any number of actors, but can I link the same effect to any number of different units?
What are validators? What are turrets? Should I copy those too?
So many different thing in there, feels like if i eff any of them up them unit will break. Wish Blizzard had given us tool tips in there.
Ok to start, the unit is only the top if the tree of your are copying from the units tab, or pending on what you are looking at; in your case, the unit is on top. As for linking, most of this is automatic when you duplicate things, it's when you make thing from scratch or separate that you have to link them to make work properly, such as a weapon missile model.
As for as reusing, most things cannot be reused, movers are an exception because they are pretty generic, most others things such as actors are very unique and cannot be used in more than one instance.
You can generally reuse the following: Models, Movers, Abilities (if you plan on not altering them, such as move and attack), some behaviors, Sounds, Validators, and Upgrades (again, if you do not plan on changing them).
You 90% of the time do not want to reuse these: Actors, Effects (most of them), and Weapons (unless you are making a unit with the same EXACT weapon and damage as another unit).
Validators are a classification of sort, checking what a unit can do or what it is flagged as, for example, a carrier uses the validators "Is Flying" and "Is Not Flying" to check how it moves and how it is targeted and such. In short, it uses these validators to check specifics. Most of the time for regular units it's flying.
Turrets are as literal as they sound, they allow a unit to "rotate" it's weapon angle. Some examples of units with turrets would be the Immortal, Siege Tank, and Planetary Fortress. In most cases, if you are copying a unit that has a turret, and want the unit you are copying to attack in a similar manner, you should copy the turret.
Hope that cleared up some.
Note: Most of this took me weeks to understand when the editor first came out for Macs (We had to wait after all the PC people in the Beta!!) But in any case, keep at it, and with practice and time you'll master the editor one part at a time. I still highly suggest you create a unit from scratch when you have the time to understand all of the parts, and again in the future when you understand the editor further for more practice.
I'm starting to learn this again. There are thousand threads about unit duplicating but still I haven't understand how to copy unit properly. Let's say I want Firebat copied. I want only to modify health, damage, armor and unit name and it must have exactly every field like normal Firebat. I want to use normal Firebat, mercenary Firebat and hero-unit Firebat in my map. By duplicating some field are missing. Why? I have tried many tutorials. Is there any simple solution? If I count the fields in non-duplicated Firebat there aren't same number of fields in duplicated version.
I'll see if I can help you out. When I create new units I find that the "Duplicate" function is very lackluster in this respect. The "Duplicate" function is far to messy as it creates duplicates for everything if you don't 'Uncheck' the boxes, but I've found another way. I'm working now so I don't have the Galaxy Editor right in front of me but I'll try and explain best I can.
First, Create the unit.
-Go into 'Data Editor' ('F7') .
-Open 'Units' tab.
-Right-Click -> 'Create New Unit....'
-Name your new unit, 'Suggest ID'
-Choose 'Unit' from the drop down selection (You may also choose 'Hero' here)
-Select the 'Copy From' radio button, select the unit to copy from in the drop-down box.
Now that you have your Unit, you'll need an Actor for it. The Actor will determine the Units Model, Sound, and Animations.
-Go into 'Data Editor' ('F7')
-Open 'Actors' Tab.
-Right-Click -> 'Create New Actor...'
-Name the Actor then 'Suggest ID'
-For 'Actor Type' set it to 'GenericUnitBase'
-Select the 'Copy From' radio box.
-Choose the actor you want to copy from.
-Click Ok. Change the Actors 'UnitName' field to the Unit you created earlier. This links the Actor and Unit together.
Note: Sometimes the Galaxy Editor acts a little strange when changing the Actors 'UnitName' field. It may change the Art - Model fields (And possibly other fields) to match the name of the unit you created. If this occurs the units model will NOT APPEAR, make sure to change the field 'Art - Model' back to its original value if it gets changed. (You can use any model from the drop-down list, but the sounds will remain that of the Actor you copied from).
Note: Make sure you do not have 2 Actors refering to the same unit AT ANY TIME. This causes strange behavior and is not recommended.
If done properly you should have a clean copy of any unit you want. You can also use this same technique in creating Weapons, Abilities, and other Objects by going to their respective tabs and selecting 'Create New'. I've looked at several of the 'Unit' creating tutorials and none have worked well enough for me, but this seems to do the trick.
Thanks for help. I browsed some tutorials too. Unfortunately making a copy of unit requires lot of work.
"Advanced" rule for duplication:
Duplicate: Unit, Actor, Weapon, Effects
Modify: Upgrades and Sound
All that is needed to copy Marine perfectly. Firebat copying seems to need more actors. So... its very sad that copying unit is as hard as making custom unit.
Very simple rule for duplication:
Right click unit - Duplicate: select unit and actor. OK.
After spending huge amount of time my opinion is that I'm not going to use custom units in my campaign.
I've been doing a lot of custom units, and sometimes I've been using the same unit but just duplicated it. When i duplicate i can check of all the things, but i still get a lot of random results. Sometimes, the actors and models are not even a copy of the original, but just an actor which the editor has written "copy" behind... Do you guys know how to fix this?
What's the technical difference between "duplicate" and create new using "copy from:[unit]"?
I'm not total noob at data editing but it seems to be very hard to make exact copy of unit. Lot of things must to be fixed manually. I had an idea to "just copy" Marine and make it hero unit for my map. Well that turned into long project to understand logic of data editor and after all I noticed that copying unit is not easy if you want absolutely everything to be copied perfectly. *sigh*
I've been doing a lot of custom units, and sometimes I've been using the same unit but just duplicated it. When i duplicate i can check of all the things, but i still get a lot of random results. Sometimes, the actors and models are not even a copy of the original, but just an actor which the editor has written "copy" behind... Do you guys know how to fix this?
What's the technical difference between "duplicate" and create new using "copy from:[unit]"?
I'm not total noob at data editing but it seems to be very hard to make exact copy of unit. Lot of things must to be fixed manually. I had an idea to "just copy" Marine and make it hero unit for my map. Well that turned into long project to understand logic of data editor and after all I noticed that copying unit is not easy if you want absolutely everything to be copied perfectly. *sigh*
OK. I stop ranting about unit copying now =D
Duplicating a unit makes a copy of selected values linked to a unit. Creating a new unit and copying from a base unit will only give you the values from that unit and no linked data such as actors and models.
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So I'm a bit confused on this issue. I've seen various tutorials, usually based on fairly simple units like the marine, where a unit is duplicated and the new custom unit is edited from there. What is the difference between using the "Duplicate" option in the menu and doing a copy paste? I'm no database programmer and don't really understand what is going on behind the scenes. As such, I'm not really sure what I should do to correctly create a new unit based off another, or a very different new unit using the same models and animations. I'm still very new to the data editor.
A unit in SC2 is usually a bunch of data objects, which are all linked together somehow.
C&P only copys one object at a time, so to C&P a unit completely, you need to copy each individual data object and re-link them all to the respective copied values.
Duplicate copys all linked objects and re-links them automatically, which can save you a lot of work. But it has disadvantages, too: Sometimes it misses some links and it always trys to copy objects, which you usually do not want to duplicate (for example if you duplicate the marine and just duplicate everything mindlessly, it will also create copies of the standard move and attack abilities etc)
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Curse PremiumCopy + paste a marine = you get the marine unit duplicated. But it has no actor, no weapon for itself, etc...
Duplicate allows you to choose what stuff you want to copy along with the marine. Normally you will want to copy the actor at least. When you hit ok, all of the things you picked are copied AND the computer automaticlly links them all together. So say you have an incredibly complicated ability with 50 inter-linked effects, and you want to make the same ability but have it do more damage. You would have to either copy all 50 of the effects and re-link them together or just duplicate 1 and check "duplicate all". Just don't ever copy and paste, it saves you a lot of confusion in the long run.
@AlphaShadows: Go
Ideally when duplicating a unit you want to check off it's actor, effects, and weapons. Most of the time you will need to duplicate the rest, unless you are changing specifics. Most of the tutorials out there I find are the "lazy way" of showing people what exactly they need to understand and know to copy a unit. I suggest if you want to completely understand how and what are all of the parts of the basic data editor, you follow a tutorial to create a unit from scratch. It may be lengthily, but I found I learned the most about the data editor when I was first using the starcraft 2 editor.
I'll give you a link to some handy tutorials that I used to create a unit form scratch.
http://rpg-exploiters.com/guides-strategies/starcraft-2-galaxyedit-tutorial-creating-your-first-unit/ http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/tutorials/5096-data-creating-new-units-easy/#posts (not exactly from scratch)
@silvermage: Go
That would be excellent. Right now I see how to do something, but when I try to do it but a bit different in some way, I don't know what I'm doing. I got a barrel of fish and don't know how to fish for myself here.
Just a quickie then, if I wanted to make a copy of a unit with no weapons, abilities, upgrades, etc. just a moving copy of the unit, would I just copy and paste the unit and then set some of the standard abilities like move, stop, queue, and give it an actor? or should even a stripped down copy be duplicated?
Maybe you can emphasize on exactly what you are trying to do.
Even if you give a unit the ability to move and such doesn't mean it can or will. There are other things that you need to verify pending on what unit you are trying to copy. If you are, for example, trying to make a structure move, there are movement flags, movement speed, and things as such that you need to alter / add; on the other hand if you want to take just a regular unit, just for the model, and make it move, then you are best duplicating the actor only and remove anything that is not needed.
Well my eventual aim is to redo a number of units, but with entirely new versions of their weapons and abilities. As such I need the unit to be what it use to be, but with no weapons or abilities, or upgrades. Right now I am working on converting a BC to beam weapons, next will be a colossus with two independent simultaneous laser beams that track their target while they fire. In both cases the units should be the same other than weapons and such.
Side note: just watched/read those tutorials which helped clear up some of what makes a basic unit, though it seems all of them say to copy fields from your starting unit. I suppose that is so all those flags and such are already set, huh?
@AlphaShadows: Go
Right, copying from a base unit or base ability is fine, otherwise you would have to fill in allot of data that is standard. In some cases you can copy from, but other times thats not always the case. I would suggest you try to avoid this as much as possible, unless you are making a similar ability or unit, such as copying a base weapon from a stalker simply to alter the damage. (you will also find in some cases that copying from a base unit is not necessary, such as for making weapon effects and buttons)
As for what you are trying to do, I would duplicate their weapons, actors and effects. After that rename the duplicated items appropriately, ie Marine Weapon Copy -> (My Unit Name) Weapon. If needed be just remove the attack functionality from the unit until you are ready to add your special weapons.
@zeldarules28: Go
u got Duplicating idea totally wrong. if you have ability with over 9000 linked effects and wanna same ability with same effects that do more dmg - you need duplicate ability and uncheck all except dmg effects and effects that linked with dmg.
cuz all that you uncheck - it will be in your ability too
@AlphaShadows: Go
same with you - when u copy unit and uncheck all abilities, actors, stupid weapons - you are like "mmmh, i'll get dummy unit ♥ ♥ ♥"
but if you uncheck all - it create copy of your unit with link to old abilities, so you need manually delete all this links (or create new from default template)
so examples:
i have Unit 1 what linked with Weapon 1
if i wanna make Unit 2 (same as Unit 1, but no weapon)
i duplicate Unit 1, uncheck Weapon 1 and in my new fresh Unit 2 i manually delete link to Weapon 1
if i wanna make Unit 2 (same as Unit 1, with same weapon)
i duplicate Unit 1 and again uncheck Weapon 1 cuz i wanna 2 units linked to 1 weapon.
1 more example - i wanna create Spartain Hellion with over 9000 dmg
what i should check when i duplicate hellion?
uncheck all abilities (new unit will have stanadt attack standart stop - thats good)
Actors:
seems like units linked to actors, not actors to units.
same with abilites - you link your ability to actor, not like wc3 u just make graphics for ability
so we duplicate them for our new unit, cuz old hellion actors linked to the old hellion and thats very hard to link actor with 2 hellions.
Effects - duplicate - we wanna new effects with over 9000 dmg
so check on all cuz they're linked with each other
Models - leave them alone (off) - duplicating models is not nessesary to you (you can change all visuals in duplicated actor)
Movers - off, we dont want second Ground Mover
Sounds - off, same as models
Turrets - idk what is it O_O so we can copy that
Upgrades - off, i hope you got why they're off (if not - cuz our hellion should be linked with old standart upgrades)
Validators - off
weapons - on (same as effects)
@Fen1kz: Go
Most of your points are correct, but I think the way you present them are confusing, and will only distort what the OP is asking. But again, you are correct, zeldar wasn't on target. Yet your point about linking weapons are a bit more complicated and extensive for the purpose of what the OP is doing.
@silvermage: Go
Jup but i hope OP will understand what im talking about and this topic will go to archive and new ppl who will want understand object system/duplicating system of Galaxy Editor will find this post through search
@Fen1kz: Go
I think I got you on the whole, but how you write is very confusing.
@silvermage: Go
To double check some things then:
Units are not the top of this tree, actors are? Units and everything else eventually link to the actor?
Also, you can or can't reuse parts of things, such as having multiple units link to the same actor, or a weapon linked to multiple units? It would seem that I can link a mover to a hundred different units or a model to any number of actors, but can I link the same effect to any number of different units?
What are validators? What are turrets? Should I copy those too?
So many different thing in there, feels like if i eff any of them up them unit will break. Wish Blizzard had given us tool tips in there.
Anyway, you guys are a huge help, thank you.
@AlphaShadows: Go
Ok to start, the unit is only the top if the tree of your are copying from the units tab, or pending on what you are looking at; in your case, the unit is on top. As for linking, most of this is automatic when you duplicate things, it's when you make thing from scratch or separate that you have to link them to make work properly, such as a weapon missile model.
As for as reusing, most things cannot be reused, movers are an exception because they are pretty generic, most others things such as actors are very unique and cannot be used in more than one instance. You can generally reuse the following: Models, Movers, Abilities (if you plan on not altering them, such as move and attack), some behaviors, Sounds, Validators, and Upgrades (again, if you do not plan on changing them). You 90% of the time do not want to reuse these: Actors, Effects (most of them), and Weapons (unless you are making a unit with the same EXACT weapon and damage as another unit).
Validators are a classification of sort, checking what a unit can do or what it is flagged as, for example, a carrier uses the validators "Is Flying" and "Is Not Flying" to check how it moves and how it is targeted and such. In short, it uses these validators to check specifics. Most of the time for regular units it's flying.
Turrets are as literal as they sound, they allow a unit to "rotate" it's weapon angle. Some examples of units with turrets would be the Immortal, Siege Tank, and Planetary Fortress. In most cases, if you are copying a unit that has a turret, and want the unit you are copying to attack in a similar manner, you should copy the turret.
Hope that cleared up some.
Note: Most of this took me weeks to understand when the editor first came out for Macs (We had to wait after all the PC people in the Beta!!) But in any case, keep at it, and with practice and time you'll master the editor one part at a time. I still highly suggest you create a unit from scratch when you have the time to understand all of the parts, and again in the future when you understand the editor further for more practice.
@silvermage: Go
Yes that was excellent, thank you.
I'm starting to learn this again. There are thousand threads about unit duplicating but still I haven't understand how to copy unit properly. Let's say I want Firebat copied. I want only to modify health, damage, armor and unit name and it must have exactly every field like normal Firebat. I want to use normal Firebat, mercenary Firebat and hero-unit Firebat in my map. By duplicating some field are missing. Why? I have tried many tutorials. Is there any simple solution? If I count the fields in non-duplicated Firebat there aren't same number of fields in duplicated version.
@Terhonator: Go
I'll see if I can help you out. When I create new units I find that the "Duplicate" function is very lackluster in this respect. The "Duplicate" function is far to messy as it creates duplicates for everything if you don't 'Uncheck' the boxes, but I've found another way. I'm working now so I don't have the Galaxy Editor right in front of me but I'll try and explain best I can.
First, Create the unit.
Now that you have your Unit, you'll need an Actor for it. The Actor will determine the Units Model, Sound, and Animations.
Note: Sometimes the Galaxy Editor acts a little strange when changing the Actors 'UnitName' field. It may change the Art - Model fields (And possibly other fields) to match the name of the unit you created. If this occurs the units model will NOT APPEAR, make sure to change the field 'Art - Model' back to its original value if it gets changed. (You can use any model from the drop-down list, but the sounds will remain that of the Actor you copied from).
Note: Make sure you do not have 2 Actors refering to the same unit AT ANY TIME. This causes strange behavior and is not recommended.
If done properly you should have a clean copy of any unit you want. You can also use this same technique in creating Weapons, Abilities, and other Objects by going to their respective tabs and selecting 'Create New'. I've looked at several of the 'Unit' creating tutorials and none have worked well enough for me, but this seems to do the trick.
Thanks for help. I browsed some tutorials too. Unfortunately making a copy of unit requires lot of work.
"Advanced" rule for duplication:
All that is needed to copy Marine perfectly. Firebat copying seems to need more actors. So... its very sad that copying unit is as hard as making custom unit.
Very simple rule for duplication:
After spending huge amount of time my opinion is that I'm not going to use custom units in my campaign.
So, I have a problem kind of related to this
I've been doing a lot of custom units, and sometimes I've been using the same unit but just duplicated it. When i duplicate i can check of all the things, but i still get a lot of random results. Sometimes, the actors and models are not even a copy of the original, but just an actor which the editor has written "copy" behind... Do you guys know how to fix this?
What's the technical difference between "duplicate" and create new using "copy from:[unit]"?
I'm not total noob at data editing but it seems to be very hard to make exact copy of unit. Lot of things must to be fixed manually. I had an idea to "just copy" Marine and make it hero unit for my map. Well that turned into long project to understand logic of data editor and after all I noticed that copying unit is not easy if you want absolutely everything to be copied perfectly. *sigh*
OK. I stop ranting about unit copying now =D
Read all of my previous posts in this thread.
Duplicating a unit makes a copy of selected values linked to a unit. Creating a new unit and copying from a base unit will only give you the values from that unit and no linked data such as actors and models.