this is practically a 3DS Max question, but I need to know, if I import a model and I detach certain parts, because it's one-mesh and I need to apply SC2 Standard Material, how do I reattach the mesh to the bone structure?
Basically it's an animated model, but when I detach it, the whole skeleton gets detached. I need to glue everything back together without flaws.
I am not really sure if my message was clear, in case it wasn't I will rephrase it. If you indeed answered to what my question aimed for, disregard it.
So, I import various models to 3DS Max and export them to StarCraft II. While most of the models have separate objects for each texture, some others come in one-mesh. In the case that the model is stationary/not-animated and will be most likely used as a doodad, I usually use the detach method and it works fine in-game. Given, however, that an animated model will be detached from its skeleton, I am not sure what other alternatives do I have to register SC2 Standard Material to it without globally applying the texture to the mesh, especially when the mesh is consisted of more than one textures.
On a side note, I import a static mesh now and while it is based off a multi-object material, when I try to use the SC2 Composite equivalent, it displays only one texture at a time and not simultaneously. How do I overcome this limitation? The mesh is not a problem, because I import it in a ud3 format, which already has every material registered and the textures look exactly as they should be. However, when I create the SC2-specific material with the exact same order as the multi-object's one, I get either the first OR the second OR the third texture displayed. I can't get all of them assigned where they are supposed to go. Is it the SC2 Art Tools plugin issue or am I missing a certain setting?
The art tools only displays one texture of a material at a time, but in engine all of the textures are applied. Most of the time this is enough to give you a rough idea of what the object will look like, but I almost always preview the model between changes to make sure things are working correctly.
Generally when I have an animated model that I am working with that I need to attach a part to I import a model mesh, and complete model. Then you can detach whatever you want from the mesh model and attach to the complete model without losing your bone attachments.
The art tools only displays one texture of a material at a time, but in engine all of the textures are applied. Most of the time this is enough to give you a rough idea of what the object will look like, but I almost always preview the model between changes to make sure things are working correctly.
Generally when I have an animated model that I am working with that I need to attach a part to I import a model mesh, and complete model. Then you can detach whatever you want from the mesh model and attach to the complete model without losing your bone attachments.
Hey, thanks for the reply.
For 1), I could not export the model so I could not really see the result. I keep getting this error when I try to preview a specific model in the SC2 Editor, which says "Degenerate triangle removed in model mesh."... "Failed to convert geometry". I have read that if sub-objects of one mesh share common geometry points, it will not allow the model to be exported, but a) I don't know if this is the case (it's a speculation, really) and b) how would I fix it, in case a) is true?
For 2), that's pretty genius, I did not think about it earlier. I will try it and let you know, thanks!
A 3rd issue now. Although I have a model working properly with the SC2 Standard Material in 3DS Max and it previews fine, its texture is not visible. They are 2048x2048 (which I have used in the past), they are in dds format, but they are just not visible on the model. All I see is a white mesh. I have attached the error message that I get. Any idea why the textures cannot be loaded?
I am not sure on your first question, I haven't run into that error before.
For the 3rd issue though when you are in the diffuse texture of the material one of the buttons just above the drop down box is "show standard map in view port", make sure that is selected and you should see that texture on the meshes with that material applied.
As for the warnings in the editor they are just letting you know that it is using the material from the folder on your computer instead of a library within the map file. When you export use the export floater and make sure use mopaq paths is checked to prevent that from happening. You will also need to import the texture into the map.
I am not sure on your first question, I haven't run into that error before.
For the 3rd issue though when you are in the diffuse texture of the material one of the buttons just above the drop down box is "show standard map in view port", make sure that is selected and you should see that texture on the meshes with that material applied.
As for the warnings in the editor they are just letting you know that it is using the material from the folder on your computer instead of a library within the map file. When you export use the export floater and make sure use mopaq paths is checked to prevent that from happening. You will also need to import the texture into the map.
3) I am aware that I need to enable the option in 3ds Max :)
It displays correctly in 3ds max, but when I preview the model in Galaxy Editor, it gives me a white mesh (first time happening by the way - every other preview was successful in the past).
The problem is SC2 doesn't use multi materials as far as I know, the composite material is basically still one material which you apply to one mesh. It's called composite because you can add more layers for example if you want to have a standard material with reflections and another layer with half of terrain material on top, etc. If the model you are trying to skin has a multi material assigned to one mesh then you have a problem and a lot of work to do. I never tried detaching and reattaching skinned characters since it doesn't work like that without ruining the rig so I really can't help you on this one, good luck!
Hope I am wrong about multi materials, but since very little is actually known about sc it could be possible, someone needs to dive into this and it should be you!
For 1), I could not export the model so I could not really see the result. I keep getting this error when I try to preview a specific model in the SC2 Editor, which says "Degenerate triangle removed in model mesh."... "Failed to convert geometry". I have read that if sub-objects of one mesh share common geometry points, it will not allow the model to be exported, but a) I don't know if this is the case (it's a speculation, really) and b) how would I fix it, in case a) is true?
This happens because in Starcraft 2, when there is intersecting triangles or triangles that cause an open hole in the mesh, the graphics engine will cause lag. This usually happens when you cut something off a model. Try and find the spot where you cut whatever it is off. Then close the hole, or edit the vertices so that the triangles aren't intersecting.
The times I have had similar issues it was because I had moved or removed the texture from the place the editor was looking for it. When I wasn't using mopaq paths it was because I had moved the folder on my computer. And when I did use mopaq paths it was because the texture was not imported to the map I was using to test. I usually like to keep a test map with all of my models and textures open any time I preview, otherwise it defaults to the test map which only has blizzard textures loaded
This is bad about composite layers then. But I am contacting the company at the moment, telling them about my issue of not being able to at least preview the model in the galaxy editor - maybe they will come up with a solution (it's the only model thus far that I could not preview).
As for 3 -> SOLVED! Apparently, the original texture is in bmp format. Although I converted it to dds, I still couldn't view it. So I converted the bmp to tga and the tga to dds and now it's perfectly fine. So, that's good to know in case I have to deal with bmp textures in the future. P.S. mseverns, I did not import anything to the map, I just wanted to preview the model through Max. ;)
For the multi-object, I cannot believe that such a powerful tool has a glitch like this, it's quite incompetent. So, I'll check if mseverns is right about it (but I wonder, Tobyfat50, didn't you have to work with a multi-object material in the past? Upon importing, did you still have issues? Because, according to mseverns, it's not displayed in Max, but in SC2 it displays correctly.).
unclesatan, thank you for your input. I will address your description to the company, because it's a pretty complicated mesh for me to work on it.
You can aslo try:
To fix the mesh problem, try converting to editable poly select all vertices, connected and weld them all then convert to editable mesh again, break the verts and "select" (attach) them all again then got to smooth groups and pic one, should do the trick.
Edit: It's worth a shot to ask Blizzard even if you might get a late or no answer. I never bothered to ask them even if they are the only ones that know theyr sjhit, I simply experimented and found out for myself. SC2 is a complex engine and its barely documented you can ask them to give us information on the more advanced stuff if you don't mind. I have never worked with a multi material btw, only composite since wc3 works similarly.
unclesatan, thank you for your input. I will address your description to the company, because it's a pretty complicated mesh for me to work on it.
you're welcome! when editing certain models I got the same error and it's just safeguard to keep your model from causing memory leaks. definitely contact the company and ask them for information on successfully editing their models. I know there's a tutorial somewhere on it, I just can't for the life of me find it. It might be in the art tools documentation as well.
I was under the impression you were talking about diffuse/specular/normal/emissive/alpha not displaying in 3ds max. I didn't read your question about the multi-material well enough I guess. Tobyfat50 is correct, the sc2 composite material is much different than a multi-material. The easiest way to get around the limitation is to break the model into several objects and apply a separate material to each one. The only real use for sc2 composite I have found is to enable creep to grow over a standard material.
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Hey all,
this is practically a 3DS Max question, but I need to know, if I import a model and I detach certain parts, because it's one-mesh and I need to apply SC2 Standard Material, how do I reattach the mesh to the bone structure? Basically it's an animated model, but when I detach it, the whole skeleton gets detached. I need to glue everything back together without flaws.
Thanks a lot!
If you need stuff attached - don't detach it. Applying another material doesn't require detaching.
If you want to learn how to attach it from scratch, learn so called skinning. Just check related tutorials on youtube.
Hey, thanks for replying!
I am not really sure if my message was clear, in case it wasn't I will rephrase it. If you indeed answered to what my question aimed for, disregard it.
So, I import various models to 3DS Max and export them to StarCraft II. While most of the models have separate objects for each texture, some others come in one-mesh. In the case that the model is stationary/not-animated and will be most likely used as a doodad, I usually use the detach method and it works fine in-game. Given, however, that an animated model will be detached from its skeleton, I am not sure what other alternatives do I have to register SC2 Standard Material to it without globally applying the texture to the mesh, especially when the mesh is consisted of more than one textures.
On a side note, I import a static mesh now and while it is based off a multi-object material, when I try to use the SC2 Composite equivalent, it displays only one texture at a time and not simultaneously. How do I overcome this limitation? The mesh is not a problem, because I import it in a ud3 format, which already has every material registered and the textures look exactly as they should be. However, when I create the SC2-specific material with the exact same order as the multi-object's one, I get either the first OR the second OR the third texture displayed. I can't get all of them assigned where they are supposed to go. Is it the SC2 Art Tools plugin issue or am I missing a certain setting?
Thanks a lot!
The art tools only displays one texture of a material at a time, but in engine all of the textures are applied. Most of the time this is enough to give you a rough idea of what the object will look like, but I almost always preview the model between changes to make sure things are working correctly.
Generally when I have an animated model that I am working with that I need to attach a part to I import a model mesh, and complete model. Then you can detach whatever you want from the mesh model and attach to the complete model without losing your bone attachments.
Hey, thanks for the reply.
For 1), I could not export the model so I could not really see the result. I keep getting this error when I try to preview a specific model in the SC2 Editor, which says "Degenerate triangle removed in model mesh."... "Failed to convert geometry". I have read that if sub-objects of one mesh share common geometry points, it will not allow the model to be exported, but a) I don't know if this is the case (it's a speculation, really) and b) how would I fix it, in case a) is true?
For 2), that's pretty genius, I did not think about it earlier. I will try it and let you know, thanks!
A 3rd issue now. Although I have a model working properly with the SC2 Standard Material in 3DS Max and it previews fine, its texture is not visible. They are 2048x2048 (which I have used in the past), they are in dds format, but they are just not visible on the model. All I see is a white mesh. I have attached the error message that I get. Any idea why the textures cannot be loaded?
@PharaonicAssault: Go
I am not sure on your first question, I haven't run into that error before.
For the 3rd issue though when you are in the diffuse texture of the material one of the buttons just above the drop down box is "show standard map in view port", make sure that is selected and you should see that texture on the meshes with that material applied.
As for the warnings in the editor they are just letting you know that it is using the material from the folder on your computer instead of a library within the map file. When you export use the export floater and make sure use mopaq paths is checked to prevent that from happening. You will also need to import the texture into the map.
3) I am aware that I need to enable the option in 3ds Max :) It displays correctly in 3ds max, but when I preview the model in Galaxy Editor, it gives me a white mesh (first time happening by the way - every other preview was successful in the past).
The problem is SC2 doesn't use multi materials as far as I know, the composite material is basically still one material which you apply to one mesh. It's called composite because you can add more layers for example if you want to have a standard material with reflections and another layer with half of terrain material on top, etc. If the model you are trying to skin has a multi material assigned to one mesh then you have a problem and a lot of work to do. I never tried detaching and reattaching skinned characters since it doesn't work like that without ruining the rig so I really can't help you on this one, good luck!
Hope I am wrong about multi materials, but since very little is actually known about sc it could be possible, someone needs to dive into this and it should be you!
This happens because in Starcraft 2, when there is intersecting triangles or triangles that cause an open hole in the mesh, the graphics engine will cause lag. This usually happens when you cut something off a model. Try and find the spot where you cut whatever it is off. Then close the hole, or edit the vertices so that the triangles aren't intersecting.
@PharaonicAssault: Go
The times I have had similar issues it was because I had moved or removed the texture from the place the editor was looking for it. When I wasn't using mopaq paths it was because I had moved the folder on my computer. And when I did use mopaq paths it was because the texture was not imported to the map I was using to test. I usually like to keep a test map with all of my models and textures open any time I preview, otherwise it defaults to the test map which only has blizzard textures loaded
This is bad about composite layers then. But I am contacting the company at the moment, telling them about my issue of not being able to at least preview the model in the galaxy editor - maybe they will come up with a solution (it's the only model thus far that I could not preview).
As for 3 -> SOLVED! Apparently, the original texture is in bmp format. Although I converted it to dds, I still couldn't view it. So I converted the bmp to tga and the tga to dds and now it's perfectly fine. So, that's good to know in case I have to deal with bmp textures in the future. P.S. mseverns, I did not import anything to the map, I just wanted to preview the model through Max. ;)
For the multi-object, I cannot believe that such a powerful tool has a glitch like this, it's quite incompetent. So, I'll check if mseverns is right about it (but I wonder, Tobyfat50, didn't you have to work with a multi-object material in the past? Upon importing, did you still have issues? Because, according to mseverns, it's not displayed in Max, but in SC2 it displays correctly.).
unclesatan, thank you for your input. I will address your description to the company, because it's a pretty complicated mesh for me to work on it.
Follow unclestan's advice!
You can aslo try:
To fix the mesh problem, try converting to editable poly select all vertices, connected and weld them all then convert to editable mesh again, break the verts and "select" (attach) them all again then got to smooth groups and pic one, should do the trick.
Edit: It's worth a shot to ask Blizzard even if you might get a late or no answer. I never bothered to ask them even if they are the only ones that know theyr sjhit, I simply experimented and found out for myself. SC2 is a complex engine and its barely documented you can ask them to give us information on the more advanced stuff if you don't mind. I have never worked with a multi material btw, only composite since wc3 works similarly.
you're welcome! when editing certain models I got the same error and it's just safeguard to keep your model from causing memory leaks. definitely contact the company and ask them for information on successfully editing their models. I know there's a tutorial somewhere on it, I just can't for the life of me find it. It might be in the art tools documentation as well.
I was under the impression you were talking about diffuse/specular/normal/emissive/alpha not displaying in 3ds max. I didn't read your question about the multi-material well enough I guess. Tobyfat50 is correct, the sc2 composite material is much different than a multi-material. The easiest way to get around the limitation is to break the model into several objects and apply a separate material to each one. The only real use for sc2 composite I have found is to enable creep to grow over a standard material.