SC2Mapster

Hey,

I really really like your map..I have played it a lot...

Few little things tho I dont like;

-Boss #1 is very hard...I think its too hard... -The Apocalypser kinda sucks for 1300 minerals... -Level 34 is so fucken hard..I die there everytime...even with a good group of guys..how do you get by it? (The Sabers) -The sunken buildings are good mid game then they have nothing..

Thats about it..but your maps awesome..congrats

Luciss (post below) was actually one of the 4 that I was with. These guys had been practicing on strats to clear it and I was fortunate enough to have been invited to join their escapade. As such, pretty much all minerals were freely shared between all the members so everyone was able upgrade and build as necessary.

Was it too easy? I'd say yes and no, however more towards no. Yes if you have a super coordinated team like we had. No if you are just doing random pick-up group. Only way we cleared it was through complete co-op and shared minerals. I don't see any possible way that a PUG would be able to get into the 30+ range (especially seeing as how so many people's idea of a tower defense is just to maze).

Using the strategy we developed in the 4-man clear, I was actually able to time a solo-build in LvR where I was able to get to level 41. I actually think I could have cleared the map if I didn't have to destroy half my buildings to build a Higgins generator in the back to kill a stuck spawn. (Explained further down)

Which brings me to another point. This is actually the second time that I've seen a stage become "stuck" because a spawn has become locked into place. The first time I encountered this (I forget which stage) but it was in a previous version. It was one of the air stages where the spawn actually had an attack component. The only way to "unstuck" these spawns were to suicide random units to get them to start moving again. Sending a unit close enough to the spawn, caused it to attack the random marine, and then continue on in its pathway.

Most recently, it happened to me during my attempt to solo clear on another air stage (high 30's). I wasn't able to kill all the spawns and so roughly 9-10 had made it to the end. However due to the spacing or whichever, 1 of the spawns became stuck in place right at the exit. Now, here was the difficult part. There was no way to reach this spawn and it didn't have an attack component. Luckily I had just enough minerals to build a Higgins generator, however it didn't have enough range to kill it. I had to sell back over half of my actual units in order to upgrade the generator in order to kill the broken spawn.

I don't know how to send/share replays but I did save both of the replays (4-man clear and solo until 41). I'd be more than willing to share them with you for you to see how the further stages fare against the current builds.

Hey I want to say great job vexal! Here are a couple of things my friends and me found when we beat the all the stages and go to the invincible mobs.

-The minerals you get for defeating the bosess near the end that give are supposed to give you like 1000 and 10000 minerals give you either 0 or 100 minerals.

-The motherships when they warp themselves get stuck.

some other things i'll comment back when i remember

We made it to lv42. The cruisers were brutal. It's not too hard if everybody knows what to do (I always prefer LvR). Sunken do need some end game tweaks...... After wave 30 they aren't doing enuf comparing to the 8k dmg tower or 800 dmg snipers =.=

Great map. A team of 4 of us just beat it on team play LvR on most recent update (the first w/o hotkeys to skill heroes). Full 44 levels with no leaks until the invincible marines. Great fun

Wow thanks for updating. Hero stat bug got fixed. Massive was nerfed ^3^.

Viking AI also got fixed. Very nice.

When will marines be useful tho?

I've confirmed what iam133b has said that tempest can indeed upgrade if they've not gotten any kills yet.

Kidomi is also correct that the first massive and probably the first air wave are slightly out of wack with the rest of the waves. they should probably be backed off a tad. I have found 1 strategy that deals with them pretty well but short of everyone following that 1 strategy it leaves very little variety in the game. I'd recommend adding a cheaper unit that does decent damage to massive units say a small un-deployed tank for 1/2 the cost of concussive rockets that deals half the damage.... then maybe make those possible upgrade to the deployed tanks for a reduced cost but still more total than the regular price.

As for the robots.. i think they're spot on. I've never seen any of them missed by all 3 defenders. I've been able to beat them within the first wave but you need 3 staggered Stinger towers that are spaced so that they can't freeze them all at once, and you need to upgrade your hero with status weapons to slow it down. You also have to carefully place 1-2 other turrents in front of the stinger missle turrents so that the robots target them with freeze waves instead of your stinger turrents.. then the rest is luck.. you'll ether leave him with a sliver of life and the second defender will get it without question or you'll get it.

Normally most players don't setup like this since its soo hard and even then its a pot shot to kill as the first defender, which is normally why the third defender always gets these because they are the ones normally with stinger turrets and to be honest this is probably how it should be because it gives them abit of action because it was probibly boring for them upto that point. Plus the 150 minerals per robot kill is a big boost to their defenses, so much so that I ussually feel bad when I steal one from them using my setup.

I love this map. Thanks for all the effort. The first massive wave is too tough tho. Lowering the cost of certain unit won't balance it as it affects later game play. Lowering the first massive wave HP is probrably better. The robots are WAY too tough. I heard someone claim to have killed it but i yet have to actually see it done.

I am a sniper fan, and if anyone here ever wonder if u should produce sniper or upgrade the damage : here it is : U = upgrade that has been done before Q = amount of snipers you have Q >= UU + 5U +2 (can't type U square) For example, the first upgrade ( from 100 dmg to 200dmg), there has been 0 upgrade before. Q >= 0+0+2 If you have 2 or more soldier, upgrade is better than producing.

when U=1, Q>=1+5+2, Q>=8 (current damage 200) when U=2, Q>=4+10+2,Q>=16 (current dmg 300) when U=3, Q>=9+15+2,Q>=26 (current dmg 400) when U=4, Q>=16+20+2,Q>=38 (current dmg 500) when U=5, Q>=25+25+2,Q>=52 (current dmg 600) when U=6, Q>=36+30+2,Q>=68 (current dmg 700) when U=7, Q>=49+35+2,Q>=86 (current dmg 800) when U=8, Q>=64+40+2,Q>=106 (current dmg 900) when U=9, Q>=81+45+2,Q>=128 (current dmg 1000)

that would be consistant with what i've seen

I found out what's wrong with the tempest tower after a bit of testing. If a tempest gets any kills (maybe even deals any damage had one scenario where a guy building it had it attack then couldn't upgrade it even though it had 0 kills) The one assured way to get an archon is to have 600 and buy the tempest and upgrade right away.

the tempest upgrade is broken, you can get your money back by clicking the "stop" button while you have him selected.

Am I missing something? I upgraded my Tempest, but it stayed the same (upgrade button was still there, but blurred out because my 400 was taken)?

Great Game! It requires that you know what your doing because new people easily mess up. Many many times over I see new people build mazes of bunkers without ever building a unit, which can royally mess up an entire team unless one of the others on their side picks up the slack.

Right now you can move from base area to base area and help each other out.. this is a must keep in this mod because it allows adaptability and allows you to help each other in times of need for the benefit of the team. I will say that the secondary defenders do tend to get the short end of the stick if the primary defenders are on the ball. exspecially the outside defenders since the inside ones can build Stinger turrents in the back of their base and catch Air leaks from both paths before it reaches the third defender.

There is a steep learning curve on this one earily in the game... some players start out great and by the 3rd or 4th level they are barely killing anything and wondering what they're doing wrong. however this curve easily dies off after wave 11 because ussually by then the third defenders (or whoever is putting stinger turrents in their bases for them) ussually get both robots for their sides and quickly move to ether tempest or upgraded tesla coils.. which means anything getting by the first 2 gets crewed up and spit out pretty fast. Waves 21 (air) and 26(air) are nightmares most the time if we get to level 16 i'm telling my team to focus on anti air stuff because the ground is usually getting easier to deal with by then. so those 2 waves might need toned down abit while ground waves get beefed up alittle from 17 to 25.

as mentioned below auto turrets are practically useless after the first 3 waves and marines are useless from the start, they could use alittle beefing up and upgrade.. purhaps keep them as they are but offer cheap 25 mineral or so upgrades to turn them into something more slightly more deadly so that they can grow with your defense.

also perhaps you should try and trigger things for secondary defeners and/or third defenders to kill as a bonus or just a plain bonus minerals to them if the all the mobs die before they get to them. routinely I don't leak on the first 3 waves and only 4-5 on the 4th wave and while it bolsters me it hinders the secondary defenders, and while i want to see them have fun and feel useful too i'm not about to purposely leak unless i'm saving for something because too many times i've watched a simple leak just walk threw everything behind the person when they could've stopped it.

Now speaking of bugs, i've knowtised that after you fail and everything gets blown up, everything in bunkers remains alive (including SCV's) while this isn't a big deal because the game does indeed stop, it might be worth it to trigger a second kill all trigger shortly after the first on a fail to ensure everything is gone.

Also using the SCV in a bunker trick, I've knowtised that the tempest upgrade works if you do it after you've already failed, but during the game it eats your money until you click the units "Stop" button to fix it.

Now I have to commend the scalability of your game aswell. it should be noted that with proper strategies its possible to play with any number of players. I actually just soloed it by myself in a private game. While many people tend to loose faith if someone is missing Its easily possible to pickup the slack with less players if the players are willing to cooperate and try. I won't deny that things work best with more players but it is possible and I've attached the reply of my solo attempt for you to download if you'd like to see it.

BTW max level for the hero's is 21, and it appears that the less heros on the map the faster yours will level as proven in my solo game soo just because your missing players with valueable hero towers doesn't mean you still are not perfectly balanced because those experience points get redistributed amongst those present. so agian i must attest to just how well this scales to having less them optimum amounts of players

Vexal if you have any questions or need help testing new idea's feel free to shoot me an email and i'd be happy to help, my email is [email protected]

Map load times are highly inconsistent for some reason... sometimes it will load almost instantly and sometimes it looks likes it freezes for a good while, causing some players to get impatient and killing the SC process to leave.

Might I also suggest you add a self kicking computer slot to bypass the B.net autostart and remove the need to press a key after loading?

Last thing, another suggestion: adding upgrades for autoturrets and bunker infantry to make them more useful would be nice. Oh and the stinger turret has a weird icon on its first command page, bottom left. Looks like an upgrade button, but it can't be pressed and it mentions weird requirements.

Anyways, congratulations, it's an awesome map so far and I must commend your patience for working on this alone.

Won a game today, found a couple of bugs along the way.

1. When spamming skill points for your hero tower you can add 1-2 (3 if you're really fast) extra that you don't have

2. Archons don't work properly. I tried to upgrade, it took the gold and nothing happened

3. This may apply to all upgradeable towers but the spider for one. You can "upgrade" and then cancel but then it "changes" into a strider, however it is still a spider. Also you can get "multiple ones" by upgrading and canceling however, its merely visual.

I have a replay if you want it.

As it stands now, this game is way to hard. How am I supposed to kill people with 130 health on like the 4 level. The money you gain from the beginning to then is hardly anything. I think you need to make each kill worth more at the end or make the bonus at the end of the level bigger.