SC2Mapster

• Real* Constructive Criticism

1) Not sure if this is directly related, but the colors swap when you enter the map. (I was blue, entered purple, maybe coding issue related to other problems?)

2) Can't get more than 3 players in the game

3) It's incredibly hard. At least for me and my friends. Make units less expensive?

4) Starting at... 12 or 13, all the waves start coming right after each other in one huge laggy mass, and some cut corners.

That's all I can remember.

I am going to be a critic, even though it doesn't seem like it is what you want. But call me a troll call me a jerk, disregard my advice, whatever you like, but I think this map has potential. But it is nowhere near "Good". I did play the Brood War version, and unless you want this to be a stupid remake that will ALWAYS be overlooked in favor of better maps, you need to go further. Because of this, I am going to look upon it as a stand alone map.

Tried with my brother just now and I have more thoughts. Some of this stuff seems really lazy. You make the Missile turret shoot twice for 4.5 damage and call it 9 damage. But that is SO far from true. The "Devourer" unit has 2 armor which makes that 9 damage turn into 5 damage, not 7. I know you tweaked HP and such, but really this just adds needless complication onto an otherwise simple map. Also, things like Stalkers and Ghosts keep their BONUS damage, but you changed their normal damage. The Bonus damage does not apply to all the air units and in fact, really sends mixed messages and breaks the heroes. This just seems lazy to me.

Heroes are boring and inneffective, with the possible exception of the HT (haven't tried it yet. Can't make it very far with your broken "Lives" mechanic). Attack moves, nothing flashy, slow etc etc. It is almost ALWAYS a better idea to buy turrets.

The Map layout is boring, as has been said. This serves as nothing more than nostalgia value and is quite lame.

Playing with multiple people who aren't your friends will not work. Why? Because you compete with one another for kills. One person is left in the dust because the other people placed towers better, or just plain from luck of the draw. There is some kind of internal competition that should not be part of the game.

There is a BRUTAL snowball effect in this game. If you let 5 units through, you lose 1$. Then you are 1$ behind for the next waves, so you are more likely to let another 5 units though. This means that you let even 1 or 2 units through, you are in almost unrecoverable shape. Your Spires as Lives mechanic is broken and they die in incorrect numbers. Unless some units are worth more lives, in which case, you need to make that clear.

The units are named incorrectly and it is annoying. Nothing more. We don't look at it and go, "OH COOL IT IS LIKE BW LOL", we look at it and go "That is not a Devourer."

Your system is archaic. SCVs moving to circles of power is unnessesary when you can place a menu on the screen allowing you to choose difficulty levels. Naming a Zergling "$" is also stupid and old.

You have 2 freaking towers. Seriously. That is truly pathetic. There is nothing special about that. Your towers have no upgrades, nothing special, nothing flashy or cool. You make the towers that are available in the ladder game.

There is no skill in this game. There are predefined locations that can be mapped out and memorized as ideal locations, and the stacking you put in is sloppy and dull. Stacking Turrets with my brother, ended up with one buggy looking Turret. Was lame. You added in the shuttle to increase the skill ceiling of the game in order to use it with heroes. Instead it comes off as clunky and arbitrary.

Your SCV AND heroes are slow and grounded, allowing it to get clogged in your own towers. You don't even need an SCV anymore, you should be able to just point and click a tower onto a location now. This adds an element of skill to the game for sure, but fiddling with a crappy interface is a bad way to add skill to the game.

You call this map final, and frankly, I am quite disgusted that you do. This is at the very most the bare bones of a decent map. You are setting your sights so terribly low and if you think this will be even remotely popular or used for anything other than it's camp value then you are going to be sorely disappointed. No one will look twice at this game. You have a LONG time to go before this can be considered "Final". A true artist knows that his job is never done. You calling this map "Final" shows that you are not a true artist. Not with this baby map. A true artist also knows that perfection is something that we can strive for but will never reach, and thus will be open to criticism. I hope I didn't come across as too harsh.

I loved this game in SC1, and when I saw that it was being made for SC2 I was ECSTATIC! I thought how much better it could be made than it was in SC1 with the new editor and such. But wow, I am so disappointed. I would love to play this map in the future, but unless you remove that "Final" off the title until a great many more versions of this game are out, I will not be touching this again.

I understand your idea for Nostalgia and that's awesome, but I think it needs a little bit... more. Here are some of my thoughts: I find it frustrating to see the units named incorrectly, and I understand why you did that, and I suppose that is your choice but personally it is pretty meh. I haven't played it with anyone else yet, but I will be trying it soon. Some units clip the corners a little. I find it still a waste of money to buy the heroes, but this could very well be a factor that is more desirable with more than 1 person. WAY more Spires are dieing than units are slipping through. I very clearly let 6 units through with 17 Spires and I had 3 left at the end. Unless units are needlessly stacking, which they shouldnt.

More thoughts. This is an awesome map... for SC1. This brings me back to my childhood and brings back happy memories. I did indeed love this map. But we are in 2010 and you advertise that in your game... You have access to the most powerful map making tool ever created for a game. So roll with it. You call this the final version and you seem so content with it... I really don't know what to say about that. This map is great for SC1, but now that we are in SC2 you have SO much further to go with it. Don't just take a map created by a feeble limited engine and remake it in better graphics. Make it what the original designer wishes he could have done back in the day. Here are some ideas I had. Advance it, and make it better or it will never be accepted.

Something criminally simple: More towers. Turrets turrets turrets and the occasional Photon cannon, that is likely not worth the cost. BORING. Allow us to do a MBS of the Spires or enemy units in order to do a quick scan of how many are left. This would add something to the game I believe. Flashier graphics. Many attacks, big explosions. Less archaic systems. Moving an SCV onto a Circle of Power, when you can easily place a menu to select. Moving Zerglings called $ on bunkers in order to buy things when you can have a building that buys this stuff with Minerals. TONS more Heroes that are actually worth it, and while they shouldn't be amazingly powerful, they should SEEM like it. This may seem odd, but when I got my first Marine, I thought, HELL YEAH! Then I saw him attacking SO SLOWLY doing such small damage and being outrun by most air units. I was just thinking how I wasted my money, not because he wasn't effective but because he SEEMED like a liability because he is so slow and boring. Cooler Interface. If you look around you will see some amazing interfaces that fit very well into the game. Camera Angle Options maybe? Top down would be an interesting choice for this one.

The map editor you have is so powerful and this map currently doesn't even stand CLOSE to the ones that were made on the WC3 engine. Don't call this the final version, because there are SO many places you can go! Take it and run with it. Improve it, impress people and push the limits!

I do enjoy this map. But again, I feel like I am playing SC1, so the enjoyment doesn't even last as long as the Tetris or Tower Defense maps I downloaded, even though they are far simpler or less complete. This one has more potential than both of those combined. So use it.

you kinda forgot to mention that this is multiplayer only map.

This game is too hard for me. Any tips? Can never make it past muta.

Not to sound like too much of a prick, but I think it takes balls to release a version you claim to be "100% complete", and a tribute to Ghost[Yoon] when it's not even a complete remake of his map. As I recall, there were quite a few more hero choices, and there was the option to build photon cannons as well as spore colonies when you bought different builders at the shop.

That being said, I have a few suggestions. Take them with a grain of salt, as I have not played your map too extensively and haven't tried all possible strategies.

1. Increase time between levels. The current delay allows for very little time to set up your stuff (build turrets, move units) 2. Make the heroes faster. It's impossible to use the hero units effectively on the faster levels (marines!). 3. Change the level names so that they fit the units. I know it's supposed to be a remake, but having incorrect labels makes the map look sloppy.

That's all the suggestions I have for now. I will continue to play your map to test out some other strategies. As of right now, playing solo, I have been unable to get past the battlecruiser level.

yeah i hope they are in the minorities... Tho im not hating on Legacy style maps in general... Yeah i said i realized this is 1 of hopefully thousands od diff styles of maps... im aware of all the new stuff..

In YOUR defense to MY post.. lol, ...actually my main gripe might(hopefully) be moderated uploads.. to where some Blizz folks keep the list moderated so theres only one of each.. you know? Instead of unmoderated 100's of versions floating around... so my map folder doesnt consist of 30 of each map... Maybe it's partly my own fault for not keeping up enough to know the correct map names so i only keep the best versions... It was tough on old bnet tho, when you browse the games.. and find one interesting to hop in on and be forced to dl a map you have for a minor fix by a half assed mapper. anyways you know what i mean... I do greatly hate this map in particular tho... Turret D's and Sunken D's need lots of new designs... the triggers and settings can be optimized for other layouts and tilesets... So no disrespect to you personally.. or the tedious work put in on this... I just have beef with this map imparticular... and lack of other designs on old bnet.. boring layout thats all, not you. It's prolly not even this maps fault, it may be old bnets fault and lack of diff designs on old bnet actually. :P

I know your remaking a classic... but SC2 really needs, AT LEAST... new map layouts...

same old boring layout ive seen on bnet a hundred times ive logged in... Is our new bnet experience gonna be old games with a fresh coat of paint.

The other game i will see nonstop in a month is 10-Way Sunken Defense... just watch... you know.. the one where the enemies run into each other, get backed up, and decide to walk backwards, into their own spawns, and kickstart a leak trigger to end the game... (all 10 way mappers... add a few extra lines of triggers to fix this pls... thats all we need is 100 versions with minute differences of these floating around on BNet2)

K back to my gripe lol I realize this is just 1 map of hopefully thousands upon thousands... But i think BNet Part Duex needs some more originality...

At the very least.. rotate the map 90 degrees.. anything... i'd prefer more originality.. but thats a start... I can't remember how many times i'm on bnet on BW browsing thru games... I see a turret D game... hoping for something diff... Nope... I remember so many varieties of maps ... I have most of them engraved in my head.. their layout.. the tilesets used...but never their names

Im not hating the player, just the game.. or in this case the map... Fun for couple rounds of nastalgia... but overall... weaksauce...

no disrespect... im sure it was tedious work... just my thoughts on some, not all, legacy styles... Mappers out there.. Expand your minds!! :P

Ok on newest map, still got multiple wave 4 spawns, only double though. Still not sure how one person gets past that level anyway. I lose so many on level 2.

bad guess :D i play just BW and after i give up my trying of being progamers i play about 5-6 years UMS maps (im little crazy) :P so you have right its nice nostalgy to play exact map like in BW, but thats all :) and cause i like this map in BW im hoping that will be also playable in SC2, which i have bad feeling that it wont be this case, if you dont upgrade it with some new ideas.

so far i end in drone level (i need to strat play revision 7) and looks like muta/medivacs lvl is little harder than others and ghost looks like best units what to buy