SC2Mapster

I played Organic a few times and remember solo'ing lvl 20 at least once without relying on additional factors, in a normal game environment. I think one of them actually got out and died from the Spore Implanter as it trotted away. Still, it was effectively solo'd.

Furthermore, I just solo'd Lvl 30 as Energy without relying on any additional factors either (though it'd be impossible without the Shield Purge). So to suggest that Munitions shouldn't be able to is saying that the rest of the game's balance is screwed. If you haven't done these things, then I guess you aren't that great of a maze designer.

It's great that you keep ignoring all of my other points, too.

v6 is now LIVE

thanks to everyone for all your input. I'm going to take a few days off from this, but will keep an eye out for bugs. It's been a fun experience and I hope people have as much fun playing this new version as I had making it.

Warl, actually organic can NOT solo both of the wave 20 bosses, under normal circumstances.

People keep going into top spawn with like 1-2 players, and then trying to use that as a balance example...

With slows from Energy and bosses at only 50% shield remaining, MAYBE they can 'solo' both bosses, with a few extra leaks, and getting up probably a 4th Hive along with Flare Fort. But last I checked, Bio and Massive were only penalties on 1 race, leaving the other race probably 90% as efficient (with slows), as Org would be.

UDF, im actually making v6 live for real on us servers in 10 minutes and will send it over to EU

Sgat, Organic can solo both of the Lvl 20 bosses at the same time. Are you saying that's overpowered as well?

I personally feel that the Lvl 20 and 30 bosses unfairly disadvantage teams that do not have the correct compositions to deal with the damage types. The lvl 20 can be dealt with when you've got competent players with good/amazing mazes, but anything less and they're going to be leaked without Organic or multiple Munitions (Energy just gets lolbulldozed by this boss). However, the Lvl 30 boss cannot be dealt with in the same way since it simply ignores mazes. It appears that without a slow of some kind (lacking an Energy player), you're pretty much destined to leak it - even with Shield Purge.

We can't control what players on our teams pick as far as races and where they spawn (if they all pick middle in Lobby for instance), so to disadvantage teams simply because of composition isn't fair to those players when they've otherwise employed a good strategy that works everywhere else. And this, in part, is why I don't particularly like the new setup. Some waves are impossible to not leak as certain races no matter how good your maze is and what towers you're building. Energy does absolutely terrible against Bio/Massive and a few others past lvl 10 until they can get a Liquifier, for instance. It doesn't matter what that player does - they're going to leak, especially since they don't have access to Spore Implanter. So what happens when they're playing Bottom? Well, they leak, and eventually you lose - all because of race choice.

That's why I said in a previous post that Hybrid is the best goalie because they are the most versatile and are least likely to leak when played by a decent player. Everyone else seems destined to leak no matter what on specific waves that their given race choice is weak to. So essentially you're penalized for choosing a race, and if you don't discuss it beforehand with your team you're shit out of luck. The only way I see it working is if you force people into specific race choices. Otherwise, again, they're penalized and you'll see players simply leave games when their team doesn't have the right comp to get through. And that's completely disregarding the East vs. West dynamic you've added.

Verid, which patch did you make Carriers invulnerable? Last game I played (2 patches ago i think), I didnt lose a carrier, but I did lose about half the shields on one (figured still wasn't fixt, and just parked it away from AoE).

As for the so when I hear the nonchalant responses to serious issues it makes me concerned, 'topic', If munitions could solo both bosses at the same time, without a slow, then I would considered them OP, and nearly required for the boss. Making any game without them pointless. I still think that Munitions should either get an air slow, or the air slow effect off of Implosion be removed (leaving on thing that could slow air, being the Energy researched building). If that was the only slow, and the Energy guy didn't research it, the team would be at just as much of a disadvantage as without Energy.

ok, the burst rocket launcher did not have the correct passive icon, and it had targets messed up on splash damage, i have fixed that.

thanks

I made the carriers invulnerable, forgot to make the interceptors invulnerable as well

As far as nonchalant design decisions. Nothing about this map has been nonchalant. I have spent more time working on this map over the last 2 months than I have working for a paycheck.

I have said several times i want to make sure that munitions can own air and I will make sure this happens.

Sgat, and you don't think it's a problem that what's touted as the ANTI AIR AND ARMOR race isn't doing well on Air waves? What if nobody picks Energy on a team? The only solution to that is then force each team to have each race, IE, make the race choice unique per team. So you'd always have Munitions, Energy, Organic, and Hybrid and never any duplicates. Otherwise, until Munitions receives some further buffage in that category, they're going to be relatively useless if they can't even obliterate what they're designed to kill outright. I never have to throw up a Super Unique for the other races to compensate for what they're already good at, and neither should Munitions. FYI, I don't even like Munitions much, but that's probably because it just feels weaker than the other options available.

Bringing that up, I still have a problem with that particular design decision regarding Super Uniques. Why, again, if you're playing half-decently should the Super Uniques only make it easier for what you're already killing easily? That's superfluous. They should be shoring up some sort of weakness - maybe adding a debuff that stops regen or shields. Otherwise you may as well suggest that you build them in someone else's maze.

Anyway, just got out of a game completed successfully as Energy in v1.165 (on normal), and I couldn't help but notice that when I clicked on someone else's T4 Munitions (upgraded = Burst Rocket Launcher), it doesn't have the icon for air splash. Maybe it is actually the T4 tower itself that doesn't have the air splash - it seemed horribly incapable of killing air waves. I was watching their health and it looked like only one was getting hit at a time, no area damage whatsoever. I, on the other hand, had almost zero trouble as Energy against 20-count air waves and the air boss (which I killed solo thanks to the Shield Purge).

IMO balance is just as important if not more so than any of the other upgrades being done to the map, so when I hear the nonchalant responses to serious issues it makes me concerned that if not for a few people complaining Munitions would've been brought out in a pretty much unplayable state.

Another note: tried Carriers and they didn't seem to work properly (same game as Tome). Tried building interceptors but they either died outright or just didn't work at all.

Hey Verid, just got out of a game and had a few small details, nothing huge:

1) Had a few mobs in lvl 33 (archon psionic, blink) and the last couple that were left would run up to a maze, blink away once attacked and repeat the process over and over again from different angles. Pretty much would have went nearly infinite as the maze was not doing enough damage to kill it so we got a long tom in there to finish it off :), if we did not have the minerals for it I suppose it would just loop infinitely?

2) Tried the carriers out, they seem to start with 4 intercepters but they all died in a few seconds of being released by the carrier. Build time on additional intercepters was fairly long. Not sure what was attacking the intercepters though, if they just die quickly or if the waves were taking them down.

3) As far as greed grounds go, was wondering if there was a way to make them less laggy. Understandably, with that many units on the map it gets pretty intense but when the whole team is running at 1-2 FPS its not really an individual computer lag problem.

That's all for now, looks great otherwise :)

just added the donate link on this page as well, didn't know that was built into sc2mapster!

Shapeshifter, I went ahead and deleted your comment. You will thank me later.

im taking wave 19 off my bug list and am going to release this if i dont get a bug report before 4:00 pm pst

the spore implanter bug is too hard to reproduce and fix right now and is just not a huge issue imo

Yeah now that you mention it I dont think ive seen the medics heal at all lately :S

Verid, is the T3 munitions splash, done before or after the check for crit chance? Warly's issue could easily be explained that splash is only done via the base dmg, and not the crit dmg splash.

As for the difficulty on air in general, that is definately more of issue about not having any kind of slows all together. Air is tough period.. Not having 2x dps time to kill them, makes a dramatic difference.

I didn't see any problems with wave 19, in west bottom/individual spawn.. Died just fine, even as Energy, with a spiral maze (v2.5x). Although, should probably see about having medic's heal while moving... Maybe was just a symptom of another problem already fixt?

1.166

• fixes wave 33 from getting stuck some times

• mobs don't get stuck if they cross the wrong point first

think I found the wave 33 and crossing the wrong point bugs fixed

Playing solo made it to wave 40 with no issues as Organic (no bugs/glitch's). With two T5 & three T4 upgraded I wasn't unable to stop Crazy Train. (To add I used the organic unique over slow.) Also I was unable to do much damage or less than 20% damage to wave 30 boss's shield, even with four T3, two T4's plus two T5 (at this time only one T5 was upgraded with short range high damage).

seattleit:

the error voices are set by the UI not the map. unfortunately thee is currently NO WAY to change the ui of a user after the game has started

canceling upgrades was taken out on purpose.

Warlyik, :

ill look more into this but ive gone over the data editor on these 2 towers at least 4 times