SC2Mapster

Not a bug just a balance note for the zerg towers. If you pick the zerg race and are playing the original version where they spawn for every player it is extremely hard to kill the first air wave at 8 on the bottom on hard difficulty settings. I have tested it out a couple times and the first tower with enough dps to do it is the t3 and its almost impossible to get that by round 8 with a single spawn and have any maze to speak of. Just letting you know because teammates getting angry i always leak that wave on the bottom. Also i would like to say that kill all air with hybrid, terrain, and toss is very easy for lvl 8 that is. Other then that the new choose your race is growing on my and has certainly not slowed down the amount of hours on this map a day.

also on 8 player the voting result text overlaps on the the voting boxes making it hard to see. lucky for me i have played enough to know the order by heart. Oh and the timer on the continue or end game once the other team has lost is very short and i often miss it and it defaults to end game. maybe a longer game or continue as the default

@ghost: Were you able to see the shield purge not working with acid spore or were you not able to load my replay?

Ok so these bugs need to be fixed or removed off my bug list to be considered for a full release. I'm hoping to have time to get to them today

1. lvl 33 mobs need to be fixed - can not reproduce
2. mobs getting stuck on points - can not reproduce
3. wave 19 possible bug with bottom individual spawn - can not reproduce
4. acid spore preventing shield purge from functioning - can not reproduce
5. nanite and liquifier insta death can affect bosses - needs to be removed

rath, im pretty sure the changelings were already fixed in my us ver. ill get it to you today

Sgat8516, I actually did a breakdown of the T4 organic tower as well at home but I excluded it because of simplicity (since it does ground splash 100% it affects far more units than the Flechette tower will in a game).

Verid, the liquifier begs to differ about "killing any non boss enemy outright" :), didnt check if the Nanite does the same but i'm guessing it might. Also, tried to reproduce those bugs (getting stuck on 2nd point) but I was not able to, might have just been that game since its the only instance i've seen it happen. I have a couple more pics of it if you would like them posted but I don't know if it would help or not.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2ZVC4Z2T

Is linked to a replay of a game I just played.

1 hour and 3 mins when the wave 30 boss reaches bottom you will see shield purge not work :P

Wait.. Changelings? I thought you removed those? Haven't seen them in last couple games I played.. although both top players prob had nukes by that point, so might have been dying to fast...

TomeofExp, T4 Energy and T4 Munitions are about equally balanced. You even pointed out the advantage munitions has for range, but you can't compare dmg done to hover, to dmg done to other enemy types... Dmg to hover is meant to be abnormally higher, because they are harder to kill (require same dmg as last wave, with less dps time).

Verid, if you want to make munitions totally rock air, you could always add a splash slow effect to the anti-air weapon only. That really is where the balance comes in, Energy effectively has double the DPS time (quadrouple if you use slow unique) to air, and is medium effective at it. Air boss past over 2 Munitions guys, they took out about 60% of his shield, Energy guy at bottom did probably 2.5x that dmg, due to the increased dps time (and because at that elbow turn :P).

But while on topic.. Why do people always try and compare the second best, with the best? Why not get a comparitive breakdown of Organic's in there as well, since they have a much shorter range (2-4yds shorter for some) than others, but no one QQ's for them :P (Sarcasm talking here, they're fine). As for bosses though... I would have to say Org is definately the absolute worst off, not sure why you put Hybrid as having a weakness to bosses, when Org are the ones that lack anything other than AoE dmg :p

I dont seem to notice much of a fast mob killing increase at full upgrade versus others at standard but meh.

Anyway something to point out, Naplam tower when u go to choose your upgrade says Archfiend is supposed to have Bypass armor but it does not has 3rd degree burns.

1.63:

nanite and liquifier now have a small chance of killing any non boss enemy outright.

still looking for info on the following bugs:

1. lvl 33 mobs need to be fixed - can not reproduce
2. mobs getting stuck on points - can not reproduce
3. wave 19 possible bug with bottom individual spawn - can not reproduce

BTW

Acid Spores still prevent shield purge from working.

thanks tome, that's a huge post to basically give the reasoning behind the nanite sucking a bit. (Thanks by the way!)

main problem is that i added ground splash to the flechette, and didn't reduce its damage 75% like i did to all other towers that do full splash damage.

need to rectify the flechette down 75% or its quantitatively better than the organic t4, I'm going to boost the nanite. but with an ability instead of damage.

stay-tuned

1.62 released

• HV cannon and DU HV Cannon (Munitions tier 3 towers) added a separate air burst rockets weapon witch owns air. This should now make munitions the master of anti air

• changelings given a 45 second life span and now ignore enemy fire

Quote from VeridianEntropy " the fact that ppl are now complaining about munitions, energy, AND organic means to me they are pretty well balanced now lol"

I would agree that this is partially true :) partially because I believe their are 2 main flaws right now in the balancing. Pretty simple ones to, so it wont be to much to cover:

1) Only organic and munitions currently have access to acid spore implanter, therefore, energy is far weaker than the other two. Damage wise (and even in number of kills for any tower you can get atm) ASI is amazing for its cost. It also hits all unit types so it covers all deficiencies that organic and munitions have (ie. organic is supposed to be weak against armor i assume since its not a damage type of any tower they have and munitions is supposed to be weak against psionic) but since energy cannot access this it has no way to beat biological and arguably massive (as liquifier is the only one that damages massive even remotely). Allowing psionic access to the ASI would balance this out (or change ASI to do a lot less so that Organic and munitions would be on even ground with energy).

2) I just wanted to do a comparison of the tier 4 towers of Energy and Munitions as Ive found that the initial tier 4 tower (Nanite Dissembler) is far weaker than the Munitions tower (Flechette tower) when the 2 are compared on even ground. I excluded the organic flare tower because I believe that the munitions and energy towers were once closely associated stats wise but have more recently deviated and it was not addressed.

Nanite Dissembler 250 dps 375 damage 750 armored 1000 robotic 6 range 1.5 weapon speed ground target only

Flechette tower 187 dps 47 damage 94 organic 204 hover 7 range 0.5 weapon speed 2 hits splash air ground and air attack

Now the only reason I believe that these two towers were based off each other is that if you multiply the cost of the Flechette tower by 1.336 you get 250, the cost of the Nanite dissembler. The number 1.336 is found by normalizing the damage of the Flechette tower and Nanite Dissembler by adjusting there outputs to the same attack speed as well as accounting for the 2 attacks that Flechette tower gets:

Nanite at 1 attack speed 250 damage 495 armored 660 robotic 6 range 1 weapon speed ground only

Flechette tower at 1 attack speed (w/ 1 attack) 188 damage 366 organic 816 hover 7 range 1 weapon speed air and ground attack air splash

now to do some comparison by multiplying these values by 1.336

Flechette tower at 1 attack speed (w/ 1 attack) 188 * 1.336 = 251 damage (normal dps) 376 * 1.336 = 502 damage (organic damage) 816 * 1.336 = 1090 damage (hover damage) 7 range 1 weapon speed air and ground attack air splash

Now between the 2 towers it can be seen (with a slight difference) that the dps of both towers are respectively 250 and 251 against all units that it has no bonus for. Damage for nanites armored and flechette's organic are 495 vs 502 ( pretty close, enough to be a round off error). The problem is that the 3rd type of damage has a huge deviation. Flechette does 1090 damage compared to the nanites 660 damage to robotic units. Not only that but this damage is also 100% air splash damage while the nanites has no splash damage. Lastly the damage of Flechette naturally hits both ground and air units while nanites only hits ground.

I suppose that some people could argue that the Nanite Dissembler upgrades into a better unit in the Liquifier but I would only include that in the reasoning if you can actually get to a point to make a Liquifier. The Flechette tower, although equal in many respects does 430 more bonus damage, has 100% air splash, can attack both air and ground forces and has +1 range over the Nanite Dissembler. Therefore, I ask that the Nanite Dissembler be boosted substantially to atleast equal if not higher levels that the Flechette tower currently holds since Energy is coined the race with "high damage" towers when compared to the other building races.

I wrote a lot about this topic because I feel this game has a lot of promise, i've enjoyed it a lot and hope to continue to enjoy the game into the foreseeable future :)

Karally:

it also gives a detection radius and tracking speed (which is actually important on the fast waves, i believe it is fairly well balanced atm

1.161 released

fixed

• all ultra unique towers need to say do not affect bosses - done
• crazy trains are supposed to be air and ground, for balance sake - done
• top spawns ARE supposed to only have 20 if 1 player left - done
• remove prevents regen from infector text - done
• each team should be able to build 2 unique towers - need to document - done
• upgrades need to say twice, since you already have one - done
• need to move ver number on splash screen - done
• archfiends need to hit air - done
• pagoda of pain should not hit fast - done
• reduce baneling radius a tad - done
• long toms doing no damage occasionally - intennded, they have a min range of 3, documented
• should default to hybrid if you don't pick (thought this happened already)

Can not reproduce, need more info:

• changelings should not be cowards and should path to end, also reduce life time
• lvl 33 mobs need to be fixed
• mobs getting stuck on points
• wave 19 possible bug with bottom individual spawn
• munitions should own the wave 30 boss