This project is abandoned and its default file will likely not work with the most recent version of StarCraft II. Whether this project is out of date or its author has marked it as abandoned, this project is no longer maintained.
Sounds good. If that is your design philosophy for Tier 1, then you pulled it off pretty well. Tier 1 is "simple." There aren't too many choices to make, and most of the units en mass can do quite well.
I'm only giving feedback because I enjoy the game so much. For a beta game with a very short development time, it's very well done. I can't wait to see what you are capable of doing with more time and a greater understanding of the editor.
Looking forward to Tier 2, and I'll be testing each unit when it comes up.
Cent, in the latest version, that shouldn't happen. You remember what version that was in?
Az: Yeah, I nerfed Zeals a bit too hard, ill be giving them some more armor and lowering the regen delay to make them a tad better (also the release of medics will help them out), i also need to tone down hellions a bit. Now that that upgrade finally works, it has made hellions pretty dominating. I also feel like level 10 is a tad too hard, but I'm not gonna release an update with just these changes. I've already made them in my local version, but the next release is gonna be a tier 2 release, hopefully by tomorrow or the next day.
Also, about your ideas instead of morphing: At first I tried to do it with addons, but when I removed the ability to lift off, I really didn't like addons anymore. If your barracks is placed in an odd spot, you cant make the addon, and so you are screwed. One addon to enable all techs, and another to mass rines, i dont think is as fun. Plus, in the later tiers, there are even more tech choices, so I want people to have to make costly decisions about which tech to take.
I wanted tier 1 to be somewhat simple from an economic perspective. Just keep spending your money and dont spread yourself too thin, and you should generally be ok. Tier 2 I have some fancy ideas planned.
Hey I played this map on bnet, but ran into a problem with the infestor wave. One of the infestors got caught behind the terrain (top right side, where the 'mountains' are). It became inaccessible and we had to quit out :(
Cool, I like the 0.24 version. Round 10 actually felt hard, and I lost units for the first time.
Thoughts: I know .24 is the last before tier 2, and I would much rather have you finish tier 2 as soon as possible, but Zealots feel even weaker (They got hugely nerfed), and Helions are now straight awesome.
Some random ideas: Maybe instead of having the Barracks morph into a new building, have the Tech Lab / Reactor options. The Tech Lab enables Marauders and Helions, and the reactor costs a lot but allows marines to be produced at a lower costs, say 100 for Reactor, marines are now 10. There are so few economic trade offs, (weaker now, stronger later), and I think adding one would add some depth. I also feel that Zealots should be added as a base unit, if they are kept at their current state. Perhaps even move the Marine damage reflect to the Zealots, where it would make more sense.
I think I've got it localized now, but I'm still working out the kinks. Also about that mineral bug, it is using other players minerals. I thought I fixed it in .23, but i didnt for the start. In the next patch it will be fixed.
Just wanted to drop in to say that this is the best SC2 custom game so far.
Only bug I noticed is that everything costs less than it should. For example, if you have 60 minerals you can buy 4 marines (15x4) but if you only have 14 minerals, you can still buy 2 (if you don't have the full price, marines cost 7 minerals). This works for everything: units, buildings and upgrades. Maybe something is wrong with the SC2 client as no one mentioned this before which is kinda weird.
Oh, and please add localization ASAP! Thank you for working on this map. Can't wait for Tier 2 :D
Zaph, is this in the latest version? the map playable area problem does seem like it could be an issue, but I thought i fixed the problem where enemies get trapped outside the spawn areas
I tried to recreate that zealot going out of bounds problem. Coundn't make it happen no matter no hard i tried. My one thought is... was your camera zoomed all the way out? You can zoom out further than usual on this map, so maybe that was your problem.
Start the game upgrade barracks to zealot and then send them up to the top where units spawn.
They will chase units outside the playable, or at least camera, area if an enemy spawns up there. The zealots will be unselectable, unless you have them bound to a control group, since they are off camera. They are still alive though, and will run back into camera view if an enemy is in range.
With Zealots up there it seems to occasionally displace mob spawns, one mob spawned to the top right, zealots couldnt reach but allied marauders could. Later on wave 9 a mob spawned top left, which was out of range. Marine poked it, it ran further back, and then marauder poked it back further, then nothing could reach it.
Wow, thanks for all the feedback. I am already aware of alot of those issues you mentioned, like mara range and zeals being weak on levels 7 and 8. Hellions as well.
You are the firs person to notice that supply glitch, thanks a bunch.
As for bunker space, I think having it cap at 7 for tier 1 penalizes massing units, because you run out of room. But until the units are properly balanced, we'll have to see about this. Each tier has a nother upgrade for bunker space, so it becomes less of an issue later on.
Im gonna me messing around with marauders, they were too weak for a while and now they are too strong. Hellions are getting tweaked too.
You are still seeing pure turret pass working? My goal is to make that possible, but very very hard to pull off. The role of turrets is to start out pretty expensive, but if you manage to upgrade it alot it becomes more than worth it. An investment type of thing.
How are zeals getting stuck in P3's area?
Again, thanks so much for the detailed list of issues, it's going to be a trick to perfectly balance tier 1 and then put in medics down the line.... but I think it is fairly close at the moment. I'm trying not to spend too much time messsing around with T1 balance atm because I am owrking on Tier 2, which is even more complex and crazy... heh
Also, the comment about co op incentive.. I thought of that too a couple days ago, and have a really neat idea called Desperation Abilities which will really really encourage co op play, but not make it required.
Also, I will work on localizing the game. I honestly had no idea it would be so popular everywhere!
If you lower your supply depo, it counts as giving 8 supply, instead of 10. Raising it puts it back to 10. On a similar note, the call in supply costs 5 minerals more than the depo. Not sure if this is intended, as it essential makes the ability worthless. (Less total HP and more minerals spent.)
The Helion attack upgrade does nothing. Tested by visual, then shooting my own units. It might be that they still acquire targets at range X
There are a few spots that zealots get stuck in as player 3.
Balance suggestions:
Increase the cost of supply / Supply change
Making a ton of any unit makes the game very easy, and less interactive. You don't need to use any abilities or micro if you have mass ranged, or even zealots. After making pure marauder until wave 6, I stopped making any units or controlling anything, and was able to clear wave 10 v.23. You could change the way call in supply works, maybe to be energy based so that supply is added at a fixed rate.
Add more bunker cargo space.
Not for balance, but to reduce clutter. Making 10+ Bunkers fills the screen for no reason.
Increase the range of Marines by 1.
Marauders outperform Marines by a large margin only because they have range 9. When you have 50+ units, a very small number can attack with the short marine range. Possibly as an upgrade. (The damage reflect seems out of place for a fragile ranged unit.)
Zealots balance.
Zealots are very good until hydras, then obsolete. All the money you invested into them in both zealot specific upgrades and armor (mass range rarely if ever gets hit) are wasted.
Helions are underpowered.
The nature of their splash, a straight line, makes it sub par. Due to their insanely low damage (speed 2.5), they do less DPS than 1 Marine. I'd suggest increasing the cost and damage by a fair amount, to make useful as support.
Turrets
Is the goal of the constant Turret nerfs to make them support rather than being massed? If that's the goal simply lower the HP or remove the Hp upgrades and increase their range. That would make them excellent support to be placed behind bunkers. If the goal is simply to bring them in line with the rest of the units, then they are decent at the moment.
__
The most standard builds I see are
1 Bunker + constant Marauder until wave 9, then make 9+ bunkers.
3 Bunker Marine, adding on more bunkers and Marines
All Turrets
Bunkers + Turrets
Everyone who goes Helion or Zealots loses. You can take pure zealot to the Hydra wave, and you can mix Zealots with ranged to wave 10, but after hydra wave they are useless.
I hope this was at least somewhat useful to you. Just some random feedback from someone who enjoys your game.
If you go zealots they can go off the playable map to kill enemies, which when you get enough can cause enemies to spawn off the playable map, and if poked can run further back so that nothing can hit them.
heh.
Also can cause some zealots to be unselectable.
Enjoyed this game a lot. One thing I'm wondering is if there will be any modes that are more cooperative. Currently you don't really interact with your teammates much, I think it would be cool to have a mode where you share a building zone with someone.
played your game, and liked it - but please, next version you publish - add localization.
im on a enGB client, some friends on deDe, and noone of us was able to read anything.
if you dont know how to localize your map, just send me a pm and ill tell you.
also, did you actually removed you map? it does not work atm, it say "map not found".
could it be that you remove the old version, to upload a new version of it, so it replaces the old popularity automatically?
Okey. Well i dont have any text on any upgs or things. Its all Param/Value/HDF2343GFGd somthing and most upg are just called Butten/Name/Stimpack232234(A startport upg) So i have no ide what all the things dose :)
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Posted May 27, 2010Thanks dude, I really appreciate all the feedback.
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Posted May 27, 2010Sounds good. If that is your design philosophy for Tier 1, then you pulled it off pretty well. Tier 1 is "simple." There aren't too many choices to make, and most of the units en mass can do quite well.
I'm only giving feedback because I enjoy the game so much. For a beta game with a very short development time, it's very well done. I can't wait to see what you are capable of doing with more time and a greater understanding of the editor.
Looking forward to Tier 2, and I'll be testing each unit when it comes up.
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Posted May 27, 2010Cent, in the latest version, that shouldn't happen. You remember what version that was in?
Az: Yeah, I nerfed Zeals a bit too hard, ill be giving them some more armor and lowering the regen delay to make them a tad better (also the release of medics will help them out), i also need to tone down hellions a bit. Now that that upgrade finally works, it has made hellions pretty dominating. I also feel like level 10 is a tad too hard, but I'm not gonna release an update with just these changes. I've already made them in my local version, but the next release is gonna be a tier 2 release, hopefully by tomorrow or the next day.
Also, about your ideas instead of morphing: At first I tried to do it with addons, but when I removed the ability to lift off, I really didn't like addons anymore. If your barracks is placed in an odd spot, you cant make the addon, and so you are screwed. One addon to enable all techs, and another to mass rines, i dont think is as fun. Plus, in the later tiers, there are even more tech choices, so I want people to have to make costly decisions about which tech to take.
I wanted tier 1 to be somewhat simple from an economic perspective. Just keep spending your money and dont spread yourself too thin, and you should generally be ok. Tier 2 I have some fancy ideas planned.
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Posted May 27, 2010Hey I played this map on bnet, but ran into a problem with the infestor wave. One of the infestors got caught behind the terrain (top right side, where the 'mountains' are). It became inaccessible and we had to quit out :(
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Posted May 27, 2010Cool, I like the 0.24 version. Round 10 actually felt hard, and I lost units for the first time.
Thoughts: I know .24 is the last before tier 2, and I would much rather have you finish tier 2 as soon as possible, but Zealots feel even weaker (They got hugely nerfed), and Helions are now straight awesome.
Some random ideas: Maybe instead of having the Barracks morph into a new building, have the Tech Lab / Reactor options. The Tech Lab enables Marauders and Helions, and the reactor costs a lot but allows marines to be produced at a lower costs, say 100 for Reactor, marines are now 10. There are so few economic trade offs, (weaker now, stronger later), and I think adding one would add some depth. I also feel that Zealots should be added as a base unit, if they are kept at their current state. Perhaps even move the Marine damage reflect to the Zealots, where it would make more sense.
Looking forward to Tier 2.
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Posted May 26, 2010I think I've got it localized now, but I'm still working out the kinks. Also about that mineral bug, it is using other players minerals. I thought I fixed it in .23, but i didnt for the start. In the next patch it will be fixed.
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Posted May 26, 2010nice map! but needs param/value/id fix :( screen...
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Posted May 26, 2010Just wanted to drop in to say that this is the best SC2 custom game so far.
Only bug I noticed is that everything costs less than it should. For example, if you have 60 minerals you can buy 4 marines (15x4) but if you only have 14 minerals, you can still buy 2 (if you don't have the full price, marines cost 7 minerals). This works for everything: units, buildings and upgrades. Maybe something is wrong with the SC2 client as no one mentioned this before which is kinda weird.
Oh, and please add localization ASAP! Thank you for working on this map. Can't wait for Tier 2 :D
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Posted May 26, 2010Zaph, is this in the latest version? the map playable area problem does seem like it could be an issue, but I thought i fixed the problem where enemies get trapped outside the spawn areas
I tried to recreate that zealot going out of bounds problem. Coundn't make it happen no matter no hard i tried. My one thought is... was your camera zoomed all the way out? You can zoom out further than usual on this map, so maybe that was your problem.
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Posted May 26, 2010With the zealots i was top (north) player.
Start the game upgrade barracks to zealot and then send them up to the top where units spawn.
They will chase units outside the playable, or at least camera, area if an enemy spawns up there. The zealots will be unselectable, unless you have them bound to a control group, since they are off camera. They are still alive though, and will run back into camera view if an enemy is in range.
With Zealots up there it seems to occasionally displace mob spawns, one mob spawned to the top right, zealots couldnt reach but allied marauders could. Later on wave 9 a mob spawned top left, which was out of range. Marine poked it, it ran further back, and then marauder poked it back further, then nothing could reach it.
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Posted May 26, 2010Wow, thanks for all the feedback. I am already aware of alot of those issues you mentioned, like mara range and zeals being weak on levels 7 and 8. Hellions as well.
You are the firs person to notice that supply glitch, thanks a bunch. As for bunker space, I think having it cap at 7 for tier 1 penalizes massing units, because you run out of room. But until the units are properly balanced, we'll have to see about this. Each tier has a nother upgrade for bunker space, so it becomes less of an issue later on.
Im gonna me messing around with marauders, they were too weak for a while and now they are too strong. Hellions are getting tweaked too.
You are still seeing pure turret pass working? My goal is to make that possible, but very very hard to pull off. The role of turrets is to start out pretty expensive, but if you manage to upgrade it alot it becomes more than worth it. An investment type of thing.
How are zeals getting stuck in P3's area?
Again, thanks so much for the detailed list of issues, it's going to be a trick to perfectly balance tier 1 and then put in medics down the line.... but I think it is fairly close at the moment. I'm trying not to spend too much time messsing around with T1 balance atm because I am owrking on Tier 2, which is even more complex and crazy... heh
Also, the comment about co op incentive.. I thought of that too a couple days ago, and have a really neat idea called Desperation Abilities which will really really encourage co op play, but not make it required.
Also, I will work on localizing the game. I honestly had no idea it would be so popular everywhere!
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Posted May 26, 2010This game is awesome. Keep up the good work.
I found a few bugs.
If you lower your supply depo, it counts as giving 8 supply, instead of 10. Raising it puts it back to 10. On a similar note, the call in supply costs 5 minerals more than the depo. Not sure if this is intended, as it essential makes the ability worthless. (Less total HP and more minerals spent.)
The Helion attack upgrade does nothing. Tested by visual, then shooting my own units. It might be that they still acquire targets at range X
There are a few spots that zealots get stuck in as player 3.
Balance suggestions:
Making a ton of any unit makes the game very easy, and less interactive. You don't need to use any abilities or micro if you have mass ranged, or even zealots. After making pure marauder until wave 6, I stopped making any units or controlling anything, and was able to clear wave 10 v.23. You could change the way call in supply works, maybe to be energy based so that supply is added at a fixed rate.
Not for balance, but to reduce clutter. Making 10+ Bunkers fills the screen for no reason.
Marauders outperform Marines by a large margin only because they have range 9. When you have 50+ units, a very small number can attack with the short marine range. Possibly as an upgrade. (The damage reflect seems out of place for a fragile ranged unit.)
Zealots are very good until hydras, then obsolete. All the money you invested into them in both zealot specific upgrades and armor (mass range rarely if ever gets hit) are wasted.
The nature of their splash, a straight line, makes it sub par. Due to their insanely low damage (speed 2.5), they do less DPS than 1 Marine. I'd suggest increasing the cost and damage by a fair amount, to make useful as support.
Is the goal of the constant Turret nerfs to make them support rather than being massed? If that's the goal simply lower the HP or remove the Hp upgrades and increase their range. That would make them excellent support to be placed behind bunkers. If the goal is simply to bring them in line with the rest of the units, then they are decent at the moment.
__
The most standard builds I see are
Everyone who goes Helion or Zealots loses. You can take pure zealot to the Hydra wave, and you can mix Zealots with ranged to wave 10, but after hydra wave they are useless.
I hope this was at least somewhat useful to you. Just some random feedback from someone who enjoys your game.
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Posted May 26, 2010If you go zealots they can go off the playable map to kill enemies, which when you get enough can cause enemies to spawn off the playable map, and if poked can run further back so that nothing can hit them. heh. Also can cause some zealots to be unselectable.
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Posted May 26, 2010I tried it - it looks quite hard and too unforgiving for me Keep balancing it ;)
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Posted May 26, 2010Enjoyed this game a lot. One thing I'm wondering is if there will be any modes that are more cooperative. Currently you don't really interact with your teammates much, I think it would be cool to have a mode where you share a building zone with someone.
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Posted May 26, 2010Got the map not found too but found a v23 a way down the list that worked.
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Posted May 26, 2010hey RainGame.
played your game, and liked it - but please, next version you publish - add localization.
im on a enGB client, some friends on deDe, and noone of us was able to read anything.
if you dont know how to localize your map, just send me a pm and ill tell you.
also, did you actually removed you map? it does not work atm, it say "map not found".
could it be that you remove the old version, to upload a new version of it, so it replaces the old popularity automatically?
bye
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Posted May 26, 2010Everything shows fine for me, not sure what is causing that problem for you.
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Posted May 26, 2010Okey. Well i dont have any text on any upgs or things. Its all Param/Value/HDF2343GFGd somthing and most upg are just called Butten/Name/Stimpack232234(A startport upg) So i have no ide what all the things dose :)
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Posted May 26, 2010Tier one I would say is about perfect, nice job! Is the comm tower suppose to start at not full health?
ProRt - They lose damage but gain attack speed. Check the info on the upgrade for the exact amount.