SC2Mapster

thanks for reply. I´ll be waiting impatiently :D

What happen to tier 3 wanting to be out by 27th, obviously that didn't happen but its almost a month later and still nothing..

Hi, I have same problem as tothemax98. I am running latest version,but the marine costs 65,bunker 110 so I can only build one bunker + 2 marines. It´s impossible to play it. And as he said,instead of reaper,helion is spawning. Help me please. Thanks in advance.

Haha, raingame your map just got mentioned on G4!

The game looks great but I can only create 2 marines and a bunker for the first level. Is this correct? I watched videos of others playing and many more marines are created with multiple bunkers. Oh and when I tried to create a reaper the bunker spawns a hellion. I am playing latest version.

So, after having played only as a bunker-user, I decided to try a different approach to this map, which sorta ruined it for me.

Tier 1 can be very easily defeated by going straight for hellions and training only those, having them stand in a big pile, to level 10. If you're really fancy you can make a firebat for level 7 so the hydralisks don't kill 3-4 of the hellions.

Tier 2 is even more easily defeated by spending the money you've saved up since level 7 to make 3+ medivacs and spending the rest on reapers, then upgrade their damage and armor to max. They end up having like 20 armor, taking practicaly no damage from everything except the broodlors (which do 50 damage) and the banelings. Luckily, the medivacs keep everything alive with ease.

Was kinda disappointing, since T2 was always atleast slightly challenging with bunkers, having to use the taunt properly, and if you got unlucky with a nylus spawning too far away be prepared to use alot of energy on your bunkers, but with this mobile unbunkered army I could just waltz up to the nylus and kill it before it spawned its second wave, ignoring the incoming attackers as their puny 20 damage attacks pathetically poked my armored units.

After level 17 or something I just went afk and came back to see that my units had defeated level 20 without any of them dying.

I think the problem there is that the units end up having too much armor when fully upgraded, and that the medivacs easily out-heal what little damage they actually manage to do.

(Though I want to go out of my way to empathize that this is a great map; one of the best custom maps I've played for SC2 so far)

I dont think Tanks splash damage you. I think tanks are the best for tier 2. When air comes all your reapers kill the air, with 2-3 bunkers full of reapers with maxed out bunker space you should be fine vs air. If all else fails get 2 Mturrents , one on either side fully upgraded should take out any air your reapers cant. Once you get like 6 tanks, 2-3 bunkers full of reapers, and 2 Mturrets, fully upgraded, you can just sit back and just taunt the enemies with the neurotoxins to attack most healthy bunker and your set. I even ran out of stuff to buy i ended up spamming reapers and running them to their doom. Its even easier if you buy 3 medivacs for the stacked armor subtraction.

Firebats are awesome, dudes. Well, somewhat awesome anyway. One of the first things I do is get 2 firebats and upgrade them to reduce everything's range by 2, then keep them for the rest of the map. They make sure everything (except those annoying broodlords) has to walk into melee range. I also keep a fully upgraded marauder in every bunker. Yeah, they take up alot of space but they make sure to slow down 90% of the units that spawn.

Immortals are also very good. Upgrade them to stun two targets at the same time and combined with the firebats and marauders, the only time anything ever reaches my defensive line is if I can't kill a nylus.

Helions are great too. Not sure why you'd say they have too low damage - get 10-15 of them and they can fry entire level 10 waves in a couple of seconds. Add to that the regen upgrade and you wouldn't need more than 10-15 of these guys to beat level 10.

I've never used the infested marines or stalkers, and siege tanks don't seem too useful to me - they have to kill whatever they're shooting at before it reaches my bunker or they end up doing more damage to my bunkers than the creeps do, but they don't help keep the attackers away. They don't attack air either. Immortals seem far better to me.

I've played this map several times. First i wanna say, very fun map. Few things i've noticed.

Whats good: Firebats are generally bad unless you support them with something. Their ability to shorten opponents range is worth having one in tier 2 as well. Overall a good balanced unit.

Medics are pretty nice for keeping your bunkers alive. But really lack stomping power. Another balanced unit in my opinion.

What needs to be adjusted: upgraded Hellions in my opinion are the best for tier 1. If anything they might need nerfing. As you i was able to beat more almost all of their one with just 3 bunkers 6 hellions and w/e else could fit were marines. Granted i upgraded them to the max damage. And they are able to pretty much 1 hit groups with the addition of marines. Only requirement is to make a wall in with 1.5-2 supply depot sized hole, with 1 bunker distance in front of your bunkers. then everything attacking you will be hit by every hellion and die instantly. Way too broken.

Marauders only really make things worse in my opinion. yes they slow down the mobs, but that just makes them group together easier. so when they actually reach your bunkers, there are too many. They might be more useful if they get a attack speed bonus upgrade, make them 1 slot for bunker, more damage, or a bigger AoE.

Once you upgrade your barracks. You lose the ability to make bunkers, so if you happen to lose ur bunkers its impossible to replace them unless you build another barracks. It seems rather bothersome and even worse in tier 2 and possibly tier 3.

How to make it better (IMO): What i think would be good for the first tier is to nerf hellions some how. They do too much damage when they focus on one pack of units.

Buff Marauders some how.

What would be fun is to make the production buildings cheaper so its easier to afford having a good mixture of units. Or instead of upgrading a barracks to make different units. And have prereq buildings and still build them from the barracks. If you do that you can leave the abilities on the prereq buildings as well. Also fixing the bunker issue.

I dont know if you have this planned for tier 3, but making use of the gun turret bunker would be fun as well. Possibly making a branch upgrade for more options instead of just the armored bunker.

Random Question: Is there a reason the templar/baneling wave do damage to your buildings just by walking past them? It doesnt even look like they are attacking, that stage they pretty much destroy every building(production and supply).

@ Warlyik Firebats are far from useless. In fact, I've used them all the way to lvl 20 (even pulled off a no bunker stratagy using them). The range debuff they give (with an 8 yard range) makes having 1 or 2 of them invaluable. you cannot stack them, however pairing them with a couple of medics and a majority of marines will keep you alive all day. As for t2 usefulness, if your nydus hunting they prevent alot of damage, causing lots of units to go melee instead of attacking at whatever range they had before.

oh, and the no bunker strat from start is probably the most fun ive had in a long ass time. absolutely epic. didn't lose a single unit lvl 10 either.

As for the rest of your post, I agree. Hellions can be massed and they work, but its undesirable. Marauders are worthless. nerfed into the ground wayyy back when we were t1 testing in beta.

Immortals are useful if your going a reaper/immo/medivac build with no bunkers. then stun keeps things off reapers.

Not enough nasty air units to make stalkers worth it. thier abilities make them hit harder basically. infested marines are fun once your secure till lvl 20, but they are wasted minerals.

That wasnt there before. But cool to have it at our server too. Number 1 played now ;D

This is probably one of the better defense games I've played so far. One thing I've noticed:

Green's pathing seems to be a bit messed up at times. I'm one of those people that likes to make a line of buildings; usually a few bunkers in the middle with other buildings like barracks and factor at the end. You make the line stretch across to each wall. With green, especially the right side, some of the mobs tend to wander off to blue's side momentarily as they seem to think they cant reach my bunkers, which they can. After a few enemies die, they switch back to coming to me which causes one of my bunkers to get a shit ton of creeps on them, more so than the others.

This can be fixed, by the player, by placing a few structures that they have to go around to break them up, I just thought it was odd that greens creeps seem to be the only side to do this. Yellow might too, I haven't played over there much.

Other than that, great job!

Managed to get to tier 3, was fun and not all too hard, I'm glad there's "not just one way to get there" as with many maps.

@drakefs tier 2 is fine, obviously new players are going to have a harder time, you don't just instantly win the game the first time you play it other it would be a pos. Tier 3 hurry up bro!