Uhuh. Now listen to me, you pompous "know all" fuck. How in the love of god would players NOT abuse barracks? You tell me it is a secure mechanic - go back and play your piece of shit known as marine arena.
Every moba game has it's quirk, but relative rules are the same. Ability to build barracks is not a rule but an abuse which leads to lag and winner being not one who's the most outfitted or skilled, but one who has high-end pc + 1gbit connection to withstand lag generated per movement of, say 12000 units simultaneously on starcraft II engine (if that were springrts engine that would've been fine because it optimized. Not this one).
Don't tell me about my inventory, sucker. It wasn't the point, and your retardcy stretches so far to completely miss the obvious - LAG. Both graphical AND networking lag combined. This feature allows players to down mid-end/low-end pc opponents == this isn't fair. Game stops being about skill and starts being about 'who's daddy got biggest cash amount'. And that's a balance issue and complete overlook of the author.
Whenever you can build something which allows spawn of endless forces - that's where they hit you. I repeat - i had 0.1 maybe 0.3 fps maximum at all time those barracks from both sides were spamming forces. You telling me that's fair? I virtually were unable to run down the street to pick up my rainbow laser i left near the shop because i was constructing missle system. You telling me that's fair and feature should be left.
Go to hell, You deserve no recognition or resemblance of a right to compose coherent messages on this forum. Not like you can, but still.
Shut the fuck up and leave this forum. After words like this i can see you have jack shit of an understanding WHAT the SIZE of the problem was.
All those barracks were placed outside of the base. There were 12 of them on the north and 12 of them on the south and about 9 of them in the middle. Each bunch built behind a wall of at least 25 missle turrets. All upcoming forces were smashed instantly while outgoing forces covered turrets and whacked just by the numbers.
And you telling to leave barracks? Fuck you and your "necessary mechanic".
You gave retards who play this miserable fuck fest of map ability to build unlimited barracks and spawn unlimited troops. HAPPY? YOU FUCKING HAPPY? Remove ability to buy and place barracks PERIOD
So what do you think of me? Someone sends me 5 bucks and I free up time equivalent to the amount of money donated?
Dude, you really underestimate power of donations. If people enjoy playing something - they will give out donations like a hot cakes. Ever head of dwarf fortress? It's creator living and developing game on constant stream of donations. Pretty neat, huh?
My point is - best appraisal of success equals how much money people willing to give you out. You just need to push right buttons and encourage them to donate, saying that you have very little time on debugging the map and you would like to, IF you had money to do so. map is good enough, i don't see why people would not spare you 2-3 bucks on coffee. That's one guy. multiply by say 500. that 1000 dollars just because you made their day with a good game.
Back to balance. Additional suggestion is to give tanks more range for the weapons. Not a lot - just a bit to compensate.
Think about it like balance between GDI and NOD - tanks are GDI - fatter, stronger, have range. walkers are NOD on the other hand is light and swift and prefer hit and run tactics over constant tough standing position.
But that's poor man's version of battleships really - in battleships you didn't had that strict splicing onto 2 classes - you had variable ships which had their roles - scouts, assassins, tanks, mega-tanks (think of juggernaut as doomhammer), aggro, casters (pirate ship which ults in load of miniships which desolate and decimate surrounding enemies then retreat back to hull to example), also trader mission which was fun addition to regular things.
Think again. One goliath. against 3 other guys in whole outfit can mow them down. even in dota2 with all it's imbalances 3 guys with barebones minimum arnament can take down most overpowered single just by shear amount of abilities and basic skill applied. Not in this map, nope. So yea - your point is completely invalid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance
I wasn't saying to make a lot of money off of it - i was saying try taking donations for it to spend more time on it instead of having no time and halfassing because of that.
Team up with someone or make public release of the map for modding - call it turret moba kit. Because that's basically what it is - a moba type of the game where you mount automated turrets on hero and don't micromanage attacks themselves.
In general you have to consider that I am not a professional game designer.
That isn't really an argument. There is a sea of a books about game design, whole youtube channel of professional game design just filled with tips (Extra credits), and you trying to push the excuse that "I am not a professional game designer". For gods sake - if you cannot deliver - don't bother in the first place.
And i'm not saying that because i want to taunt you, i'm saying this because this map has potential of becoming most high-ground standing map in starcraft II alongside Squadron TD and Aeon of storms. Only thing it need - is a right hand to balance all the crap out until it is solid ground for competitive gameplay.
Put in paypal donate button, aim to spend more time on this map and attract people - that's how you get it done in the first place. But when i see one asshole wrecking whole game and whole other team leaving - that's when you loose your audience and your map spins down from "popular" to "shit".
Don't find excuses - accept "unbiased environment, where it's okay for them to rip it to shreds", and start balancing.
Ok sorry, i just was frustrated because of some assholes just abuse balance storming off at start and then single-handedly destroying whole enemy team.
My point is - remove goliath. At the beginning there should be only the tank. You really need to change your philosophy towards player progression - whole line of walkers gives players unfair speed advantage yet THEY are the ones who have emp to disable fast moving targets. Wtf?
You mainstreamed classes too much making tanks bulky and slow and walkers fast and far more deadlier. My point is - mixit up a little - i mean - that example of a player were player ON GOLIATH, easily crushing whole party of tank players, in 3v1 fight and then hastly getting away after he scored only 2 additional early kills. Do you really that biped walker will be faster than tank which is designed to roll? Quadruped maybe, not biped.
If you remember battleships you know there weren't 2 lines - fast ships which has a bit less hp but dominate, and slow ships which even being tanky still suck ass big times. No - there were different ships with completely different abilities. And yes - stealth submarine were cheating shit then and it's cheating shit now.
1. Slow tanks must compensate their speed by ability to time the attack ,stun the opponent, deliver huge blow then roll away. Or general ability to increase firing distance of weapons because of more steadier foundation - like to example - walkers have better speed, but their weapon range is 2/3 - that way harrasment with goliath will be not an option.
2. Throw away laser completely. If you don't understand why - read gaming theory on dominant strategy - that laser is exactly that. Either buy 2 in the beginning or suck ass whole game. There is virtually no way to counter goliath with 2 lasers and emp ability at the beginning.
3. Remove walker's emp shot and give it to the tanks. Or introduce supportive casters line so those would be able to stun. Again - argument in support of that goliath at the beggining and through out the game is that 1button win dominant strategy. It leaves other players who want to play tanks virtually no ability to counter it without alot of grinding WHICH will backfire because while they grind to counquer that op goliath - goliath player grinds to upgrade it and in the end - i see goliath killing 2 lasertanks. Yeah, fucking balance present. NOT.
4. Not enough weapons. There is simply not enough weapons and what choices are there either dominant strategy (laser + missle barrage) or do jack shit against fast walkers (artillery aoe cannons).
There are a lot of additional notes. Like rank. At this point - rank shows k/d ratio. I say fuck this - make rank to represent total XP gained by player*win or /loss. That will encourage players to play more even if they're not very good at this - because there will be sense of progression.
When you encounter op cocksucker which has jack shit of a life and learned all balance holes and constantly abuse them driving you to 3/21 k/d and your rank suddenly goes 2 points beyond - there is no sense of accomplishment but rather sense of "that this map sucks, fuck it, i'm gonna play something else. " kind of sense, if you know what i'm saying.
This map has some potential, but at this state - balance is atrocious piece of shit.
Especially when it comes down to regeneration packs and abuse of distance.
Play some battleships for crying out loud.
Features that need refabrishing and rebalancing:
-Health-packs should be only be available when 5-6 seconds out of battle. Not while inside of it. And if they are - make them slowly regen like tango, or drop regeneration if damage received like potions (DOTA)
-Add ability to sell tank in general for 50-60% of initial cost so players would be able to buy cheap tank and rush towards buying point.
-Remove Goliath as first vehicle available and leave only basic tank - learn from battleships - 1 and only 1 type of vessel available for you at the beginning if you are not planning to add trading/mining operations (battleships X). Players can choose to upgrade it later.
-Add more in-between units to smooth up process of leveling up your vehicle
-Either remove all invis completely, along with blinking. If you still too eager to leave invis - suit yourself - it breaks balance to shit. Either make it like rikki with 3 sec out of battle only fade (loose invis on attack, can't go invis until 3 sec out of battle) or add scanners, yet it's still a huge stinking balance breaker. Just throw that shit away.
Graphical revising:
-Remove top turrets from tanks which don't have self abilities-attacks which use them (like laser tank) replacing them with small versions of bunker.
-Cull down unnecessary scenery to optimize performance inside of heavy battles.
So far - this map comparing to wc3 battleships is a mediocre clone of them. Just like original battletanks from wc3. And yes i know that battleships were after, but still - it feels like battleships had far more superior balance and smoother player progression, as opposed to chunky and retarded broken progression of tank battle.
0
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Yea no problem. I were too big of a foul mouth in the first place. Sorry about that.
0
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Yea you see - exactly what i was saying.
0
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Uhuh. Now listen to me, you pompous "know all" fuck. How in the love of god would players NOT abuse barracks? You tell me it is a secure mechanic - go back and play your piece of shit known as marine arena.
Every moba game has it's quirk, but relative rules are the same. Ability to build barracks is not a rule but an abuse which leads to lag and winner being not one who's the most outfitted or skilled, but one who has high-end pc + 1gbit connection to withstand lag generated per movement of, say 12000 units simultaneously on starcraft II engine (if that were springrts engine that would've been fine because it optimized. Not this one).
Don't tell me about my inventory, sucker. It wasn't the point, and your retardcy stretches so far to completely miss the obvious - LAG. Both graphical AND networking lag combined. This feature allows players to down mid-end/low-end pc opponents == this isn't fair. Game stops being about skill and starts being about 'who's daddy got biggest cash amount'. And that's a balance issue and complete overlook of the author.
Whenever you can build something which allows spawn of endless forces - that's where they hit you. I repeat - i had 0.1 maybe 0.3 fps maximum at all time those barracks from both sides were spamming forces. You telling me that's fair? I virtually were unable to run down the street to pick up my rainbow laser i left near the shop because i was constructing missle system. You telling me that's fair and feature should be left.
Go to hell, You deserve no recognition or resemblance of a right to compose coherent messages on this forum. Not like you can, but still.
Fumus.
0
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Shut the fuck up and leave this forum. After words like this i can see you have jack shit of an understanding WHAT the SIZE of the problem was.
All those barracks were placed outside of the base. There were 12 of them on the north and 12 of them on the south and about 9 of them in the middle. Each bunch built behind a wall of at least 25 missle turrets. All upcoming forces were smashed instantly while outgoing forces covered turrets and whacked just by the numbers.
And you telling to leave barracks? Fuck you and your "necessary mechanic".
0
You think that was bad?
http://screencast.com/t/1SxZu7m7X
http://screencast.com/t/wxXC87I5R
http://screencast.com/t/2oeYbDNNh
let's see. at last screenshot that was 1/16 of what was marching towards our base. I had 0.1 fps. My team mates had 0.4 with 1 660 and 6 fps with 2x titan sli.
You gave retards who play this miserable fuck fest of map ability to build unlimited barracks and spawn unlimited troops. HAPPY? YOU FUCKING HAPPY? Remove ability to buy and place barracks PERIOD
0
Dude, you really underestimate power of donations. If people enjoy playing something - they will give out donations like a hot cakes. Ever head of dwarf fortress? It's creator living and developing game on constant stream of donations. Pretty neat, huh?
My point is - best appraisal of success equals how much money people willing to give you out. You just need to push right buttons and encourage them to donate, saying that you have very little time on debugging the map and you would like to, IF you had money to do so. map is good enough, i don't see why people would not spare you 2-3 bucks on coffee. That's one guy. multiply by say 500. that 1000 dollars just because you made their day with a good game.
Back to balance. Additional suggestion is to give tanks more range for the weapons. Not a lot - just a bit to compensate.
Think about it like balance between GDI and NOD - tanks are GDI - fatter, stronger, have range. walkers are NOD on the other hand is light and swift and prefer hit and run tactics over constant tough standing position.
But that's poor man's version of battleships really - in battleships you didn't had that strict splicing onto 2 classes - you had variable ships which had their roles - scouts, assassins, tanks, mega-tanks (think of juggernaut as doomhammer), aggro, casters (pirate ship which ults in load of miniships which desolate and decimate surrounding enemies then retreat back to hull to example), also trader mission which was fun addition to regular things.
0
@mOOhkOOh: Go
Think again. One goliath. against 3 other guys in whole outfit can mow them down. even in dota2 with all it's imbalances 3 guys with barebones minimum arnament can take down most overpowered single just by shear amount of abilities and basic skill applied. Not in this map, nope. So yea - your point is completely invalid.
0
@Freddy2287: Go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance
I wasn't saying to make a lot of money off of it - i was saying try taking donations for it to spend more time on it instead of having no time and halfassing because of that.
0
@Freddy2287:
Team up with someone or make public release of the map for modding - call it turret moba kit. Because that's basically what it is - a moba type of the game where you mount automated turrets on hero and don't micromanage attacks themselves.
That isn't really an argument. There is a sea of a books about game design, whole youtube channel of professional game design just filled with tips (Extra credits), and you trying to push the excuse that "I am not a professional game designer". For gods sake - if you cannot deliver - don't bother in the first place.
And i'm not saying that because i want to taunt you, i'm saying this because this map has potential of becoming most high-ground standing map in starcraft II alongside Squadron TD and Aeon of storms. Only thing it need - is a right hand to balance all the crap out until it is solid ground for competitive gameplay.
Put in paypal donate button, aim to spend more time on this map and attract people - that's how you get it done in the first place. But when i see one asshole wrecking whole game and whole other team leaving - that's when you loose your audience and your map spins down from "popular" to "shit".
Don't find excuses - accept "unbiased environment, where it's okay for them to rip it to shreds", and start balancing.
0
@Freddy2287:
Ok sorry, i just was frustrated because of some assholes just abuse balance storming off at start and then single-handedly destroying whole enemy team.
My point is - remove goliath. At the beginning there should be only the tank. You really need to change your philosophy towards player progression - whole line of walkers gives players unfair speed advantage yet THEY are the ones who have emp to disable fast moving targets. Wtf?
You mainstreamed classes too much making tanks bulky and slow and walkers fast and far more deadlier. My point is - mixit up a little - i mean - that example of a player were player ON GOLIATH, easily crushing whole party of tank players, in 3v1 fight and then hastly getting away after he scored only 2 additional early kills. Do you really that biped walker will be faster than tank which is designed to roll? Quadruped maybe, not biped.
If you remember battleships you know there weren't 2 lines - fast ships which has a bit less hp but dominate, and slow ships which even being tanky still suck ass big times. No - there were different ships with completely different abilities. And yes - stealth submarine were cheating shit then and it's cheating shit now.
1. Slow tanks must compensate their speed by ability to time the attack ,stun the opponent, deliver huge blow then roll away. Or general ability to increase firing distance of weapons because of more steadier foundation - like to example - walkers have better speed, but their weapon range is 2/3 - that way harrasment with goliath will be not an option.
2. Throw away laser completely. If you don't understand why - read gaming theory on dominant strategy - that laser is exactly that. Either buy 2 in the beginning or suck ass whole game. There is virtually no way to counter goliath with 2 lasers and emp ability at the beginning.
3. Remove walker's emp shot and give it to the tanks. Or introduce supportive casters line so those would be able to stun. Again - argument in support of that goliath at the beggining and through out the game is that 1button win dominant strategy. It leaves other players who want to play tanks virtually no ability to counter it without alot of grinding WHICH will backfire because while they grind to counquer that op goliath - goliath player grinds to upgrade it and in the end - i see goliath killing 2 lasertanks. Yeah, fucking balance present. NOT.
4. Not enough weapons. There is simply not enough weapons and what choices are there either dominant strategy (laser + missle barrage) or do jack shit against fast walkers (artillery aoe cannons).
There are a lot of additional notes. Like rank. At this point - rank shows k/d ratio. I say fuck this - make rank to represent total XP gained by player*win or /loss. That will encourage players to play more even if they're not very good at this - because there will be sense of progression.
When you encounter op cocksucker which has jack shit of a life and learned all balance holes and constantly abuse them driving you to 3/21 k/d and your rank suddenly goes 2 points beyond - there is no sense of accomplishment but rather sense of "that this map sucks, fuck it, i'm gonna play something else. " kind of sense, if you know what i'm saying.
0
This map has some potential, but at this state - balance is atrocious piece of shit.
Especially when it comes down to regeneration packs and abuse of distance.
Play some battleships for crying out loud.
Features that need refabrishing and rebalancing:
-Health-packs should be only be available when 5-6 seconds out of battle. Not while inside of it. And if they are - make them slowly regen like tango, or drop regeneration if damage received like potions (DOTA)
-Add ability to sell tank in general for 50-60% of initial cost so players would be able to buy cheap tank and rush towards buying point.
-Remove Goliath as first vehicle available and leave only basic tank - learn from battleships - 1 and only 1 type of vessel available for you at the beginning if you are not planning to add trading/mining operations (battleships X). Players can choose to upgrade it later.
-Add more in-between units to smooth up process of leveling up your vehicle
-Either remove all invis completely, along with blinking. If you still too eager to leave invis - suit yourself - it breaks balance to shit. Either make it like rikki with 3 sec out of battle only fade (loose invis on attack, can't go invis until 3 sec out of battle) or add scanners, yet it's still a huge stinking balance breaker. Just throw that shit away.
Graphical revising:
-Remove top turrets from tanks which don't have self abilities-attacks which use them (like laser tank) replacing them with small versions of bunker.
-Cull down unnecessary scenery to optimize performance inside of heavy battles.
So far - this map comparing to wc3 battleships is a mediocre clone of them. Just like original battletanks from wc3. And yes i know that battleships were after, but still - it feels like battleships had far more superior balance and smoother player progression, as opposed to chunky and retarded broken progression of tank battle.