Colonial Line Wars is a tug-of-war style map made by Lithe.585 (NA). The basic concept should be familiar to anyone who's played Nexus Wars, Desert Strike, etc. However, Colonial Line Wars sets itself apart from the pack with its focus on creating a balanced competitive environment and on smaller scale engagements that focus on carefully planned unit composition and positioning rather than massive numbers.
Colonial Line Wars is a 3v3 map with 3 lanes. Each lane has 3 beacons which are controlled by whichever team's units passed over it last. Income is given automatically each spawn, and players can invest to gain additional income based on how many beacons in a specific lane their team holds. Investing in beacon income is critical to win the game in virtually every match, but spending your resources on income too soon can leave you with not enough units to hold the lane, which prevents you from reaping the rewards of that investment. This forms the strategic basis for the whole map, as both teams vie to control the lanes they've invested to gain income in while trying to push back the lanes their opponents are gaining income from.
Units are organized into tiers. At the start of the game, players can only build zerglings or marines. Each new unit must be unlocked by researching a specific upgrade. While a few other units (Reapers, Hydralisks and Zealots) can be researched right off the bat, most units require the player to first research a Tier Upgrade, a costly upgrade which does not unlock any new units directly, but unlocks a new series of upgrades to acquire new units. Teching takes both time and money, and while teching, a player cannot buy additional income, so deciding when to tech is another important part of the game's strategy.
The units themselves each have modified stats and cost and are carefully balanced to have a variety of hard and soft counters to different unit compositions. In addition to deciding what units to make, it is important to position your buildings carefully, as the units will spawn in the same formation. This leads to a variety of interesting tactics, and clever unit positioning can make up for disadvantages in income or unit composition in some cases. The developer is very active with patching and very attentive to the community's balance discussions, and the map has evolved to a truly impressive level of balance, with no single strategy being dominant and a growing circle of regular, competitive players.
The map can be pretty intimidating for new players unless they're willing to spend a lot of time reading the forums and help menu before expecting to win matches. Recent patches have focused largely on improving newbie-friendliness, with an extensive series of tips in the help menu explaining the game's mechanics, and the game's forums are very active with strategy discussion and many helpful veterans who are happy to answer questions, but none of that is likely to stop you from getting face crushed on your first couple matches (assuming your opponents are not also new). Another important thing to note is that the units have custom stats and don't all fit in the same general role as they do in the melee game. If you've never played before, it can be really hard to predict which units will counter or be countered by which other units. That's one area where the in-game help system could definitely use some refinement, as there is no organized unit guide to display the stats of all the new units, nor is there info about which units counter which.
If you enjoy the tug-of-war genre or are looking for a custom map that you can really sink your teeth into and work to become skilled at, you owe it to yourself to give CLW a try. It generally hovers around the bottom of page one / top of page two on the popularity list, and games rarely take more than a minute or two to fill up except in the absolute slowest of off hour times.
My favorite thing about CLW is how it differs from the two giants of the tug-of-war genre, Nexus Wars and Desert Strike. I don't want anyone to take this as an attack on those maps' authors - they are fun maps and I enjoy playing both of them from time to time - but they really highlight a difference of philosophy that makes CLW great. In both Nexus Wars and Desert Strike, the following two things are true:
1. "Wave stacking" (where the next wave arrives before the previous waves finished fighting) occurs frequently from the very early stages of the game, and the team that's ahead tends to build up momentum until the other side has no chance except to use some sort of 'kill everything' skill.
2. If a match goes to the late game, both sides have absurd numbers of units.
As for #1, it has its place in those other maps and creates a different kind of strategy, but CLW is a refreshing change of pace. The static defenses are pretty robust, and the wave timing is such that waves rarely stack together. If you're way ahead in your lane, you will hold all 3 beacons (allowing you to pump income comfortably) and begin to wear down on the static defenses, but not until at least midgame or so do you have much chance of actually killing their defenses and winning outright. This puts more focus on team strategy and the income war, and creates a lot more possibilities for clever responses to lead to a team that way fairly far behind early on coming back and taking the lead. It has some other effects which are related to point 2:
The smaller army numbers even into late game has a number of advantages. Obviously, it reduces the lag that plagues other maps in this genre (honestly, has anyone ever had a final battle in Desert Strike that *didn't* lag like crazy?), but that's just a side bonus. It means that every decision you make as to what units to build, when and where is important. Even 30 minutes into a match, you can look at what your opponent is doing and decide to try to go for a hard counter, or hedge your bets with a more flexible soft counter, or try a really diverse unit mix to limit the effectiveness of hard counters on both sides. Massing tons of anything is generally a bad idea.
I could go on for hours about all the intricacies of the game; suffice it to say, it's very competitive and very balanced. While it's not at all micro intensive, it doesn't feel like you could play it while asleep or replace the whole user interface with 3 or 4 buttons/sliders. It makes excellent use of conventional RTS concepts like timing, positioning and resource management, while staying true to the tug-of-war genre and all that makes it appealing.
CLW has a [url=http://clw.46.forumer.com/index.php?noportal=1]discussion forum[/url], which the creator uses to discuss ideas with the community. If you try the map out and enjoy it, you should definitely register on the forums and read some threads. I haven't enjoyed a custom map this much since the WC3 days, and it's the first custom map that has me obsessing over strategy, theorycrafting in forums when I'm not playing, and generally doing all the things I do to obsess over ladder! If Day[9] did dailies about CLW, I'd be in heaven.
tl;dr: CLW is an amazing competitive tug-of-war map. You should play it right now, and then you should sign up on the forum and join our growing community!
Facility 17, Shape Wars and Cosmic Eclipse all look absolutely stunning. I didn't watch every demo vid, so don't feel like I'm snubbing you if I didn't mention your map, but if there are many more submissions as impressive as these 3, then I can't *wait* for all of 'em to get uploaded and popular on b.net. Pretty much every submission video I watched on this thread seems at least on par with the most sophisticated customs that are currently popular. I like a good tug of war map as much as the next guy, but I'm really looking forward to some polished, well-designed maps like this catching on to add some more variety to the customs scene. I hope they're hard at work on a new custom game system to solve some of the remaining problems with the popularity and lobby systems, because there are a lot of really amazing maps hitting b.net now. Keep up the good work, everyone! Us non-mapmakers appreciate your hard work :)
Is this the final planned length of the game, or just a demo release of the early stages? If this is the whole game, do you have plans to take the turn-based RPG engine and make more games with it? I'll play through the release when I have an hour to burn, but from the preview I know I'm gonna want MOAR!
That's terrible advice, IMHO. The engine is capable of many different styles of input and interface, and many games play better with non-RTS style controls. It's incredibly short-sighted to suggest that mapmakers should simply not use all the awesome tools to change the interface Blizzard designed for us. You'd have to be very new to gaming, or a diehard Blizz RTS fan who literally sees no entertainment value in any other genre of game to think that redesigning every potential map idea around the default UI is the best way to move forward. If you don't like more complex maps, don't play them, but I strongly disagree that most players prefer a map that sticks to the default UI. There are few things as impressive as a map with a well-implemented custom control and interface system.
For example: are you honestly suggesting that an FPS map would be better suited just having everyone a+move a unit with default style controls as opposed to, you know, FPS controls? You can say "I don't want to play FPS maps," but plenty of people *do* want to make - and play - them. The OP is clearly working on a map where a custom interface is a major part of the game design. Your suggestion may make sense for some projects, but not this one.
fps as in frames per second, you going to say if your getting 1fps ur not lagging?
Lag is slang for network latency. It means data isn't transferring between computers quickly enough. FPS has to do with your hardware and how well it can render the image for you. You can have the best computer on the planet but if there are latency issues, it'll still lag. If your hardware is really really bad it can cause you to lag, but for the most part lower end hardware just means that player will see their screen refresh at a slower rate (i.e. lower FPS) without causing issues for the other players.
WASD controls are tricky to implement without really inefficient use of triggers, which leads to many times the normal amount of data being passed between each player's computer. This can cause lag which has nothing to do with your graphics card or getting low framerates or any of that stuff - just network latency.
This looks awesome, can't wait to test it out in multiplayer, hopefully tomorrow, never tried the hackish method but with the utilities out now it is theoretically not that hard with a friend willing to tough it out as well, right?
I opened it alone via the editor 'test this document' thing, and the only thing I could really notice is that the Advanced building section was still there with all the default stuff - might wanna remove that.
I will report back once I have a chance to do a little testing, assuming I can get MP to work. Anyone else who wants to test this or other customs with me, feel free to add: Soli.stus
So far, aside from the current lack of any built-in save feature that isn't completely open to player manipulation, what's the biggest limitation you've come across in either the work you've already done or what you've begun planning the code for in detail?
I believe it has to do with the Footprint called Creep Tumor. Looking at other Zerg buildings, Footprints appear to label other Zerg units as either Creep or CreepSource. I don't know much about Footprints, though, and looking at the Footprint called Creep Tumor I didn't see any values about creep. So I guess I'm not much help :P
I haven't been able to figure out how to do any of the following things. Are any of them possible, either via clever triggering or perhaps Galaxy scripts?
-Getting the current value of an active timer
-Modifying the value of a repeating timer in any way besides resetting it to its original value
-Doing arithmetic with Reals / without integer truncation
-Changing the unit data for a given unit type dynamically as opposed to defining it via the Unit editor in Galaxy Editor program. Is there any way to write a script or trigger to change, say, the hp of a Marine (not a specific, spawned marine, but all present and/or future marines) to 65? I imagine I could do this by making a second +hp upgrade that couldn't be researched but was given to the player by the trigger when desired, but is there any way to modify the unit stats that you can set in the Unit module dynamically via trigger or script aside from creating a bunch of upgrades granting +hp, etc. and then manipulating their levels via trigger? I assume that would be a viable workaround (it was used in some WC3 maps that wanted to, say, procedurally generate ever stronger waves in an endless TD), but it's not very elegant.
-Another question that just occurred to me: besides timer window and boss bar, which non-ladder UI elements actually work? I tried adding the character profile button on a whim and clicking it causes SC2 to hang, not crashing outright but freezing the game engine and making it impossible to access the menu, although the cursor still moves - I assume it's waiting for a response that will never come and since it's an internal game process, there's no failsafe in place when that expected response never comes (like a timeout message or whatnot - why would another thread in the same local executable time out unless the app has already crashed, after all?).
It may be more helpful for people to compare this conceptually to the "open RPG" maps with save systems in WC3 rather than conventional MMOs. It's not an MMO, although it borrows elements from them. The idea is to create a fun RPG map experience for b.net custom game fans that focuses on persistent character features to allow long-term character development, hunting for new phat lewt, the pride of reaching endgame content, the replayability of pvp with persistent stats and rewards, etc.
I agree that it's important to keep options open for new players. A map designed for single player that functioned as a tutorial slash early game quest line for newcomers to the series could help, as could bundling certain important endgame content on a 'main map' that includes lowbie zones.
Blizzard has been kinda vague about the various features they plan to add for customs, but it's pretty likely that some form of server-side data storage will be possible, IMO. Obviously, if that happens, it would solve a lot of the data tampering concerns. Any system relying on the local XML file feature will, at the very least, be vulnerable to 'backups' to avoid any negative consequences of death, losing in pvp, etc., as well as an easy way to dupe items by trading and then overwriting the character that gave it away with a previous XML file. If you are stuck with encrypted local XML, I don't know how you could prevent that sort of copying abuse. Hopefully there is some sort of server-side tool you can leverage if not an outright server-side version of the data bank feature.
I really like the direction it sounds like you plan to take this project - PvP focused endgame, with character progression based on lots of customization options via ability/talent builds, and lots of loot to acquire and upgrade to further improve your character.
I recommend having around 3-4 classes per race tops, and making each one truly unique in some way. For Terran, one generic Marine/ground soldier type unit makes sense, along with Ghost as a specialist psi-based combat unit. Maybe a vehicle-oriented class as well? It's hard to imagine playing Terran in a World of Starcraft project and not being able to pilot Hellions, Siege Tanks, Banshees, etc. in some fashion. The really big vehicles would probably be limited to roles in PvP arena type instances, but I can imagine Hellions or Vultures or other light ground vehicles being the basis for a Terran class, where they would always have access to their vehicle as an item they could upgrade or replace with better ones later. As the gear and combat mechanics evolve, maybe there could be two 'normal'-ish soldier classes, plus Ghost and Pilot or whatever.
Protoss technology uses the bearer's innate Psi energy as a power source, which seems like a natural awesome unique mechanic for Protoss characters. All Protoss classes, including Zealots, would have a Psi pool, and depending on the class they would have various options for both gear that uses that energy (either passively just to operate, or when activated to do something cool) and spells/abilities that use it (Templar seems like a natural caster class, for example, whereas Zealots may have a couple abilities that directly use Psi but would mostly use it to power combat gear). I'm imagining my heroic Zealot using a burst of his Psionic willpower to activate leg enhancements to Charge impossibly fast at my opponent, then slashing his face with psionic blades whose power is directly proportional to my remaining psi pool. Of course, my shields are powered by psi as well, so I have to balance my use of activated abilities with my need to keep shields up, and there'd always be the temptation to risk skimping on shield power to boost those lovely blades... With Zealots it may feel a bit more like Rogue energy than mana, but with the added twist of it interacting heavily with your gear as well. Templars, on the other hand, would have a much larger psi pool for their expensive spells but less access to psi-powered combat gear, so they would play more like Mages with a mana pool, treating it more as a mid- or long-term resource rather than a short-term limitation on burst damage and skill usage.
With Zerg, it seems like taking an iconic unit (e.g., Hydralisk, Zergling) for a base class and then having upgrade options focused on evolving new traits would be cool and thematic. It's kinda hard to imagine most Zerg units using any sort of gear, though. Perhaps they could have two 'true Zerg' classes that are entirely evolution-based with no regular items but some unique mechanics to add a similar random loot hunt type appeal to the evolution process (maybe unique drops of 'parts' from defeated foes that would be used to unlock new evolutionary traits, so rare parts drops would partially dictate the options available to you?), along with an Infested Terran and a Protoss Hybrid, which would have some Zerg-y abilities and whatnot but would use Terran or Protoss equipment, respectively. I'm kinda unsure about all this... Maybe the *only* playable Zerg should be infested humanoids of some sort so they can play more like the other races without it making no sense, but then one or all of them could also raise a Zerg 'pet' or two of the hive-minded, all biological variety? A Kerrigan-esque sentient infested Terran who at first learned to spawn a pathetic Broodling but by endgame could command her own mini swarm of Zerg units could be pretty badass.
Another thought just occurred to me while thinking about how to balance that last idea, along with Terran vehicle classes. Each race could have a class like this that would have a large battlefield presence but less powerful anti-hero abilities - Pilots, maybe a vehicle-based equivalent for Protoss, and the Kerrigan-esque brood leader Zerg class. They would be useful to have on your team in a big fight but also high priority targets for enemy heroes like Ghosts and Templar - kill the puny human/protoss pilot/infested brood leader and disable their big vehicle or turn their brood into neutral hostiles, attacking each other and former allies like. Maybe they could be a 'prestige class' sort of feature, unlocked based on progress on a 'regular' class, who could only use some of their unique class features on certain maps / in certain situations? No bringing your tanks or swarms to a small pvp arena map, but if it's a big battlegrounds type affair or maybe even an AoS type scenario with CPU armies of creeps/mobs/neutrals/whatever you wanna call em clashing and opposing teams of heroes trying to give their side the edge, it could be designed to allow a set number of these classes per team. I dunno, I haven't fully thought this out, just an idea to float out there - it would be cool but also really hard to balance with 'regular' classes to have classes that could do things like pilot larger Terran vehicles or command their own mindless, loyal brood of Zerg units, so this is a first attempt at a way to make it possible in some fashion without breaking the rest of the game that isn't designed for that kind of thing.
0
Colonial Line Wars is a tug-of-war style map made by Lithe.585 (NA). The basic concept should be familiar to anyone who's played Nexus Wars, Desert Strike, etc. However, Colonial Line Wars sets itself apart from the pack with its focus on creating a balanced competitive environment and on smaller scale engagements that focus on carefully planned unit composition and positioning rather than massive numbers.
Colonial Line Wars is a 3v3 map with 3 lanes. Each lane has 3 beacons which are controlled by whichever team's units passed over it last. Income is given automatically each spawn, and players can invest to gain additional income based on how many beacons in a specific lane their team holds. Investing in beacon income is critical to win the game in virtually every match, but spending your resources on income too soon can leave you with not enough units to hold the lane, which prevents you from reaping the rewards of that investment. This forms the strategic basis for the whole map, as both teams vie to control the lanes they've invested to gain income in while trying to push back the lanes their opponents are gaining income from.
Units are organized into tiers. At the start of the game, players can only build zerglings or marines. Each new unit must be unlocked by researching a specific upgrade. While a few other units (Reapers, Hydralisks and Zealots) can be researched right off the bat, most units require the player to first research a Tier Upgrade, a costly upgrade which does not unlock any new units directly, but unlocks a new series of upgrades to acquire new units. Teching takes both time and money, and while teching, a player cannot buy additional income, so deciding when to tech is another important part of the game's strategy.
The units themselves each have modified stats and cost and are carefully balanced to have a variety of hard and soft counters to different unit compositions. In addition to deciding what units to make, it is important to position your buildings carefully, as the units will spawn in the same formation. This leads to a variety of interesting tactics, and clever unit positioning can make up for disadvantages in income or unit composition in some cases. The developer is very active with patching and very attentive to the community's balance discussions, and the map has evolved to a truly impressive level of balance, with no single strategy being dominant and a growing circle of regular, competitive players.
The map can be pretty intimidating for new players unless they're willing to spend a lot of time reading the forums and help menu before expecting to win matches. Recent patches have focused largely on improving newbie-friendliness, with an extensive series of tips in the help menu explaining the game's mechanics, and the game's forums are very active with strategy discussion and many helpful veterans who are happy to answer questions, but none of that is likely to stop you from getting face crushed on your first couple matches (assuming your opponents are not also new). Another important thing to note is that the units have custom stats and don't all fit in the same general role as they do in the melee game. If you've never played before, it can be really hard to predict which units will counter or be countered by which other units. That's one area where the in-game help system could definitely use some refinement, as there is no organized unit guide to display the stats of all the new units, nor is there info about which units counter which.
If you enjoy the tug-of-war genre or are looking for a custom map that you can really sink your teeth into and work to become skilled at, you owe it to yourself to give CLW a try. It generally hovers around the bottom of page one / top of page two on the popularity list, and games rarely take more than a minute or two to fill up except in the absolute slowest of off hour times.
My favorite thing about CLW is how it differs from the two giants of the tug-of-war genre, Nexus Wars and Desert Strike. I don't want anyone to take this as an attack on those maps' authors - they are fun maps and I enjoy playing both of them from time to time - but they really highlight a difference of philosophy that makes CLW great. In both Nexus Wars and Desert Strike, the following two things are true:
1. "Wave stacking" (where the next wave arrives before the previous waves finished fighting) occurs frequently from the very early stages of the game, and the team that's ahead tends to build up momentum until the other side has no chance except to use some sort of 'kill everything' skill.
2. If a match goes to the late game, both sides have absurd numbers of units.
As for #1, it has its place in those other maps and creates a different kind of strategy, but CLW is a refreshing change of pace. The static defenses are pretty robust, and the wave timing is such that waves rarely stack together. If you're way ahead in your lane, you will hold all 3 beacons (allowing you to pump income comfortably) and begin to wear down on the static defenses, but not until at least midgame or so do you have much chance of actually killing their defenses and winning outright. This puts more focus on team strategy and the income war, and creates a lot more possibilities for clever responses to lead to a team that way fairly far behind early on coming back and taking the lead. It has some other effects which are related to point 2:
The smaller army numbers even into late game has a number of advantages. Obviously, it reduces the lag that plagues other maps in this genre (honestly, has anyone ever had a final battle in Desert Strike that *didn't* lag like crazy?), but that's just a side bonus. It means that every decision you make as to what units to build, when and where is important. Even 30 minutes into a match, you can look at what your opponent is doing and decide to try to go for a hard counter, or hedge your bets with a more flexible soft counter, or try a really diverse unit mix to limit the effectiveness of hard counters on both sides. Massing tons of anything is generally a bad idea.
I could go on for hours about all the intricacies of the game; suffice it to say, it's very competitive and very balanced. While it's not at all micro intensive, it doesn't feel like you could play it while asleep or replace the whole user interface with 3 or 4 buttons/sliders. It makes excellent use of conventional RTS concepts like timing, positioning and resource management, while staying true to the tug-of-war genre and all that makes it appealing.
CLW has a [url=http://clw.46.forumer.com/index.php?noportal=1]discussion forum[/url], which the creator uses to discuss ideas with the community. If you try the map out and enjoy it, you should definitely register on the forums and read some threads. I haven't enjoyed a custom map this much since the WC3 days, and it's the first custom map that has me obsessing over strategy, theorycrafting in forums when I'm not playing, and generally doing all the things I do to obsess over ladder! If Day[9] did dailies about CLW, I'd be in heaven.
tl;dr: CLW is an amazing competitive tug-of-war map. You should play it right now, and then you should sign up on the forum and join our growing community!
0
Facility 17, Shape Wars and Cosmic Eclipse all look absolutely stunning. I didn't watch every demo vid, so don't feel like I'm snubbing you if I didn't mention your map, but if there are many more submissions as impressive as these 3, then I can't *wait* for all of 'em to get uploaded and popular on b.net. Pretty much every submission video I watched on this thread seems at least on par with the most sophisticated customs that are currently popular. I like a good tug of war map as much as the next guy, but I'm really looking forward to some polished, well-designed maps like this catching on to add some more variety to the customs scene. I hope they're hard at work on a new custom game system to solve some of the remaining problems with the popularity and lobby systems, because there are a lot of really amazing maps hitting b.net now. Keep up the good work, everyone! Us non-mapmakers appreciate your hard work :)
0
Is this the final planned length of the game, or just a demo release of the early stages? If this is the whole game, do you have plans to take the turn-based RPG engine and make more games with it? I'll play through the release when I have an hour to burn, but from the preview I know I'm gonna want MOAR!
0
@SouLCarveRR: Go
That's terrible advice, IMHO. The engine is capable of many different styles of input and interface, and many games play better with non-RTS style controls. It's incredibly short-sighted to suggest that mapmakers should simply not use all the awesome tools to change the interface Blizzard designed for us. You'd have to be very new to gaming, or a diehard Blizz RTS fan who literally sees no entertainment value in any other genre of game to think that redesigning every potential map idea around the default UI is the best way to move forward. If you don't like more complex maps, don't play them, but I strongly disagree that most players prefer a map that sticks to the default UI. There are few things as impressive as a map with a well-implemented custom control and interface system.
For example: are you honestly suggesting that an FPS map would be better suited just having everyone a+move a unit with default style controls as opposed to, you know, FPS controls? You can say "I don't want to play FPS maps," but plenty of people *do* want to make - and play - them. The OP is clearly working on a map where a custom interface is a major part of the game design. Your suggestion may make sense for some projects, but not this one.
0
Lag is slang for network latency. It means data isn't transferring between computers quickly enough. FPS has to do with your hardware and how well it can render the image for you. You can have the best computer on the planet but if there are latency issues, it'll still lag. If your hardware is really really bad it can cause you to lag, but for the most part lower end hardware just means that player will see their screen refresh at a slower rate (i.e. lower FPS) without causing issues for the other players.
WASD controls are tricky to implement without really inefficient use of triggers, which leads to many times the normal amount of data being passed between each player's computer. This can cause lag which has nothing to do with your graphics card or getting low framerates or any of that stuff - just network latency.
0
This looks awesome, can't wait to test it out in multiplayer, hopefully tomorrow, never tried the hackish method but with the utilities out now it is theoretically not that hard with a friend willing to tough it out as well, right?
I opened it alone via the editor 'test this document' thing, and the only thing I could really notice is that the Advanced building section was still there with all the default stuff - might wanna remove that.
I will report back once I have a chance to do a little testing, assuming I can get MP to work. Anyone else who wants to test this or other customs with me, feel free to add: Soli.stus
0
So far, aside from the current lack of any built-in save feature that isn't completely open to player manipulation, what's the biggest limitation you've come across in either the work you've already done or what you've begun planning the code for in detail?
0
@Hiren: Go
I believe it has to do with the Footprint called Creep Tumor. Looking at other Zerg buildings, Footprints appear to label other Zerg units as either Creep or CreepSource. I don't know much about Footprints, though, and looking at the Footprint called Creep Tumor I didn't see any values about creep. So I guess I'm not much help :P
0
I haven't been able to figure out how to do any of the following things. Are any of them possible, either via clever triggering or perhaps Galaxy scripts?
-Getting the current value of an active timer
-Modifying the value of a repeating timer in any way besides resetting it to its original value
-Doing arithmetic with Reals / without integer truncation
-Changing the unit data for a given unit type dynamically as opposed to defining it via the Unit editor in Galaxy Editor program. Is there any way to write a script or trigger to change, say, the hp of a Marine (not a specific, spawned marine, but all present and/or future marines) to 65? I imagine I could do this by making a second +hp upgrade that couldn't be researched but was given to the player by the trigger when desired, but is there any way to modify the unit stats that you can set in the Unit module dynamically via trigger or script aside from creating a bunch of upgrades granting +hp, etc. and then manipulating their levels via trigger? I assume that would be a viable workaround (it was used in some WC3 maps that wanted to, say, procedurally generate ever stronger waves in an endless TD), but it's not very elegant.
-Another question that just occurred to me: besides timer window and boss bar, which non-ladder UI elements actually work? I tried adding the character profile button on a whim and clicking it causes SC2 to hang, not crashing outright but freezing the game engine and making it impossible to access the menu, although the cursor still moves - I assume it's waiting for a response that will never come and since it's an internal game process, there's no failsafe in place when that expected response never comes (like a timeout message or whatnot - why would another thread in the same local executable time out unless the app has already crashed, after all?).
0
Very cool project, a few initial thoughts:
It may be more helpful for people to compare this conceptually to the "open RPG" maps with save systems in WC3 rather than conventional MMOs. It's not an MMO, although it borrows elements from them. The idea is to create a fun RPG map experience for b.net custom game fans that focuses on persistent character features to allow long-term character development, hunting for new phat lewt, the pride of reaching endgame content, the replayability of pvp with persistent stats and rewards, etc.
I agree that it's important to keep options open for new players. A map designed for single player that functioned as a tutorial slash early game quest line for newcomers to the series could help, as could bundling certain important endgame content on a 'main map' that includes lowbie zones.
Blizzard has been kinda vague about the various features they plan to add for customs, but it's pretty likely that some form of server-side data storage will be possible, IMO. Obviously, if that happens, it would solve a lot of the data tampering concerns. Any system relying on the local XML file feature will, at the very least, be vulnerable to 'backups' to avoid any negative consequences of death, losing in pvp, etc., as well as an easy way to dupe items by trading and then overwriting the character that gave it away with a previous XML file. If you are stuck with encrypted local XML, I don't know how you could prevent that sort of copying abuse. Hopefully there is some sort of server-side tool you can leverage if not an outright server-side version of the data bank feature.
I really like the direction it sounds like you plan to take this project - PvP focused endgame, with character progression based on lots of customization options via ability/talent builds, and lots of loot to acquire and upgrade to further improve your character.
I recommend having around 3-4 classes per race tops, and making each one truly unique in some way. For Terran, one generic Marine/ground soldier type unit makes sense, along with Ghost as a specialist psi-based combat unit. Maybe a vehicle-oriented class as well? It's hard to imagine playing Terran in a World of Starcraft project and not being able to pilot Hellions, Siege Tanks, Banshees, etc. in some fashion. The really big vehicles would probably be limited to roles in PvP arena type instances, but I can imagine Hellions or Vultures or other light ground vehicles being the basis for a Terran class, where they would always have access to their vehicle as an item they could upgrade or replace with better ones later. As the gear and combat mechanics evolve, maybe there could be two 'normal'-ish soldier classes, plus Ghost and Pilot or whatever.
Protoss technology uses the bearer's innate Psi energy as a power source, which seems like a natural awesome unique mechanic for Protoss characters. All Protoss classes, including Zealots, would have a Psi pool, and depending on the class they would have various options for both gear that uses that energy (either passively just to operate, or when activated to do something cool) and spells/abilities that use it (Templar seems like a natural caster class, for example, whereas Zealots may have a couple abilities that directly use Psi but would mostly use it to power combat gear). I'm imagining my heroic Zealot using a burst of his Psionic willpower to activate leg enhancements to Charge impossibly fast at my opponent, then slashing his face with psionic blades whose power is directly proportional to my remaining psi pool. Of course, my shields are powered by psi as well, so I have to balance my use of activated abilities with my need to keep shields up, and there'd always be the temptation to risk skimping on shield power to boost those lovely blades... With Zealots it may feel a bit more like Rogue energy than mana, but with the added twist of it interacting heavily with your gear as well. Templars, on the other hand, would have a much larger psi pool for their expensive spells but less access to psi-powered combat gear, so they would play more like Mages with a mana pool, treating it more as a mid- or long-term resource rather than a short-term limitation on burst damage and skill usage.
With Zerg, it seems like taking an iconic unit (e.g., Hydralisk, Zergling) for a base class and then having upgrade options focused on evolving new traits would be cool and thematic. It's kinda hard to imagine most Zerg units using any sort of gear, though. Perhaps they could have two 'true Zerg' classes that are entirely evolution-based with no regular items but some unique mechanics to add a similar random loot hunt type appeal to the evolution process (maybe unique drops of 'parts' from defeated foes that would be used to unlock new evolutionary traits, so rare parts drops would partially dictate the options available to you?), along with an Infested Terran and a Protoss Hybrid, which would have some Zerg-y abilities and whatnot but would use Terran or Protoss equipment, respectively. I'm kinda unsure about all this... Maybe the *only* playable Zerg should be infested humanoids of some sort so they can play more like the other races without it making no sense, but then one or all of them could also raise a Zerg 'pet' or two of the hive-minded, all biological variety? A Kerrigan-esque sentient infested Terran who at first learned to spawn a pathetic Broodling but by endgame could command her own mini swarm of Zerg units could be pretty badass.
Another thought just occurred to me while thinking about how to balance that last idea, along with Terran vehicle classes. Each race could have a class like this that would have a large battlefield presence but less powerful anti-hero abilities - Pilots, maybe a vehicle-based equivalent for Protoss, and the Kerrigan-esque brood leader Zerg class. They would be useful to have on your team in a big fight but also high priority targets for enemy heroes like Ghosts and Templar - kill the puny human/protoss pilot/infested brood leader and disable their big vehicle or turn their brood into neutral hostiles, attacking each other and former allies like. Maybe they could be a 'prestige class' sort of feature, unlocked based on progress on a 'regular' class, who could only use some of their unique class features on certain maps / in certain situations? No bringing your tanks or swarms to a small pvp arena map, but if it's a big battlegrounds type affair or maybe even an AoS type scenario with CPU armies of creeps/mobs/neutrals/whatever you wanna call em clashing and opposing teams of heroes trying to give their side the edge, it could be designed to allow a set number of these classes per team. I dunno, I haven't fully thought this out, just an idea to float out there - it would be cool but also really hard to balance with 'regular' classes to have classes that could do things like pilot larger Terran vehicles or command their own mindless, loyal brood of Zerg units, so this is a first attempt at a way to make it possible in some fashion without breaking the rest of the game that isn't designed for that kind of thing.