I don't think the wave effect used by the swarm guardian is part of any animation... Something tells me it's exactly the same process as in zealots with their hair, or corruptors with their "tails". If you look closely, these parts of the models are not animated using keyframes (which is the usual process used for animating 3D models, in which case you should have had results with what you've done), but instead it's animated using some kind of a script (ie. it's procedural animation, meaning it's real-time and following rules like gravity and such). So basically, I don't think you'll ever be able to stop these parts from moving unless you find the specific part of code which generates the rules applying to the swarm guardian body/tail.
Chances are this thing is hard-coded in the SC2 engine, so you're out of luck... If any part can be edited, I guess you may find a hint in Data, in a tab related to the engine itself, physics settings, or anything like that. There is probably a way to find out which unit gets which rules from which file, applied to which part of the model... But it will obviously be very complicated, just to find it! You may even have to edit the models themselves in a 3D engine (Maya, 3DSMax), and find if there is a dummy of some sort linked to an external script. Not worth the time and effort, if you ask me...
@ZealNaga: Go "piracy hub Megaupload" fucking CNN propaganda... who the fuck still reads or listens CNN anyway?
I don't like CNN either, I just found this link first when browsing. But anyway, CNN or not, MegaUpload is a piracy hub, they've been caught red-handed. The site was well-known for this, and it helped them gaining notoriety. If MegaUpload was so huge, it's mostly because people shared illegal content on it. And MegaUpload let them do. So yes, no matter what we think of CNN, the facts are here and MegaUpload was responsible. They're not a piracy hub that can be compared to The Pirate Bay, but still, they did allow piracy and even made money out of it. It's kind of silly to blame the law for doing its job... It just seem fair to me that they got caught, we knew from the very beginning it could happen because we knew what was going on there.
Still, it doesn't mean we have to agree about the site being closed, or SOPA being voted. And that's precisely why I'm kind of glad Anonymous took part in this. Like I said earlier I'm not that worried about SOPA anyway, because even if they have the law with them, anti-piracy groups can't do shit. The internet medias are way too quick and way too hard to control, by the time they shut something down it will be "cloned" elsewhere in the world and they won't be able to control it. Hackers will always find a way to bypass such things, if SOPA is voted they can already prepare themselves for a huge mayhem orchestrated by the hackers they're trying to stop. There's no way something like SOPA could last. It's not the first law trying to control internet and it won't be the last, and I'm pretty sure it will fail miserably just like the others.
Don't get mad from what I'm going to say but... What you did is pretty close to what I did. 7 years later, the first job opportunity where I don't feel like shit appears in Canada. I'm going there this year, I'm just waiting for the answer from the immigration department (only a matter of days, maybe weeks now). If this doesn't work, I'm definitely giving up my hopes of working in the video games industry for a living. I'm either not made for such a job, or there is something wrong in this industry. I'd rather think it's just me, but who knows...
You're obviously more of an artist than a programmer, but it doesn't mean you can work in both the 3D movies industry and the video games industry. They're absolutely not the same. In the video games industry your models have a limited polygons count, textures size, limited shaders, etc... Basically you have an entire part of the job about optimizing the models and effects for real-time rendering. It doesn't work like that in the 3D movies industry. When making a movie, you have multiple jobs working together to get the best render possible (lightings, motions, cameras, SFX/VFX,...). It's basically closer to movies than video games, both don't follow the same rules. You must be aware of that for your career choice, because if you work in the video games industry I don't think you'll ever be accepted to work on a 3D movie (and vice-versa). Basically, aim for Ubi/EA/Bliz OR Disney/Pixar, but you can't have both.
If you want my opinion, EA is the worst company to work in. It's a huge industry, you're a little ant in the anthill and nobody cares about what you think or want, or even your private life. Ubisoft is a good compromise IMO, but someone I met from Ubisoft in Montreal (he's in the mid-30 I think) already thinks Ubisoft is becoming another EA. I already considered working at Blizzard but I'm not sure what it's like. Probably like Eidos, a very secretive company and you can't get a job there if you don't have 5+ years of experience and at least three AAA games in your CV. Actually, to be completely honest with everyone thinking they could make it in the video games industry, if you don't have 2 years of experience and worked on at least 1 famous title, chances are you won't get ANY job in the video games industry.
This is why I'm moving to Canada (pretty much my last hope here), this is also why at 27 I'm considering switching to another career. I'm fed up with working on titles like My Little Pony on DS to earn $300 a week and feel like shit (especially with girls). I've used the Unreal Editor long enough to teach people how to use it, so I'm planning on being a teacher in level design. I have found a college in Montreal where they needed someone like me, so I hope it will go well. But the truth is, ANY job NOT even remotely close to the video games industry is fine by me now... I'll keep my passion for level design and maps/mods making for my spare time, even if it means working solo and not getting any feedback or support. Maybe a good compromise would be to start my own company and start developing indie games, actually I've already considered doing this... But again, I'd rather do that in my spare time rather than making a living out of it.
I just dont want to do only one thing. Seems too boring and pointless.
One of my teachers once said she had 3 jobs before being a teacher. I wouldn't worry if I were you, having multiple jobs is quite normal and way more interesting (for personal accomplishment... and probably sanity as well).
I just want to play Starcraft professionally. I'm not the best, but I'm working on changing that. I have a dream that I want to beat Idra.
If you're older than 25, forget the idea. Pro players are chosen very young by pro teams because the muscles in their hands are in better shape than us adults. I'm not kidding... The thing is when you get older your accuracy and your reflexes are getting worse, so you're more "valuable" to a team when you're young.
Just to answer the topic now, I wanted to be part of the video games industry since I was a kid (literally). I really wanted to do this as an adult, and spent way too much time in that purpose. The thing is, now I have what I always wanted. And it sucks. Really. I'm 27, it's been 7 years of hard work, doubts, almost no social life, and now I'm looking for jobs as a teacher rather than a level designer. I still like this industry but I've seen its dark side now, and it's not as funny as it seems.
I'd rather get a job where I don't feel like crap when I get home (late), I want a real life with friends and social activities, a girlfriend that won't complain about my job and/or extra hours, etc... Meet me in 10 years and I'll probably say something completely different, but for now I'm kind of in a mood where I need to switch to something else. The point of my little story being "do NOT idealize video games jobs". I know I'll still be an addict to level editing, but I'm just not sure it's worth making a living out of it.
It kind of hurts my feelings when people are saying (with tiny sparkles in their eyes) that they WANT to go pro. It sure is interesting, but it's not easy at all. You'll be treated like shit most of the time, you will feel like you've been working for nothing when you'll see how people react to your work (pros, colleagues, reviewers, players, maybe even family, etc...). It's not much of a big deal once in a while, but when it happens daily and all around you it's really painful. I don't want people to think that because they have fun programming things and/or making maps and mods, it will be as fun if they become pro. Being pro is nowhere as fun as making maps in your spare time.
It's not related to SOPA (though I admit the timing is quite... convenient), but I think you guys will be interested in knowing that MegaUpload has been shut down for illegal activities by American feds.
why isnt there an action to fix this between/during map uploads?
Isn't it planned to be fixed in HotS? I'm not sure but I think they talked about localization issues during Blizzcon last year.
But you're right though, unfortunately random people testing maps are somehow expecting melee maps and/or simple game mechanics they could understand without reading anything. Nobody understands the objectives in my Sand Worm Survival map even though they are all displayed in the upper left corner during THE WHOLE EFFING GAME! It's pretty simple: hunt one race, protect yourself against the other. Yet nobody gets it. In Ikari Warriors controls are displayed on the loading screen (not much to say besides "move with arrows and throw grenades with mouse"), and people keep wondering how it works... Geeks these days...
Map making in the video games industry is teamwork. It's not only to meet deadlines and reduce development cost, it's also because we expect each guy in the team to be specialized in what he does (Mozared is right about that). If you have an interview with a pro for a job in level design, the first thing he'll ask is "are you more of a world builder, more into placing props, or more into scripting?" (real life experience here). There is no such thing as a "level designer god" who's able to handle the 3 parts on its own (OK, as far as I can tell there are 2 or 3 of them... in the entire world, and I'm not kidding). I really suck at scripting so I'm really glad someone could do this part for me and/or help in case I need something.
I have never had another person directly help with my map. The biggest barrier for me is that; while I am working on something, if there is a problem, I know exactly how I triggered everything, everything I changed in the data editor, and every doodad I placed. I can easily track down a problem. Or even, if I were to want to change a system around. If someone else implemented it with all of their variables, I would need to study the whole thing for a while before I could safely dismantle it and recreate something that could do the same thing.
That's also true. But the thing is it's not only about teamwork. There is also a magic tool called NOMENCLATURE. You can't work efficiently as a team in the example you just gave, because it's not really a team. It's more like everyone in your so-called team is trying to do it his own way, which ends up in a pretty messy work obviously. It happens a lot with amateurs, but it's because they are not organized enough. And amateurs are probably too proud of themselves, not really willing to work as a team... As I said many times, level design is a job, not anybody can do it and it's not as easy as it seems... I know how to cook noodles, it doesn't mean I can open a restaurant tomorrow.
Working as a team means planning things, prior to making them. When everyone is OK with what they have to do, there's no trouble and it goes fluently. No such thing as "hey, who the hell changed the name of my variable? I lost 2 days of work here!"... When a version goes wrong, we know exactly which day it happened, so we know who was in charge, and what is messed up. It sometimes look like an "assembly line" indeed, but who told you level design is not repetitive in the first place? Every job has its flaws. You have no choice but to repeat the same tasks again and again, in fact you have 3 times more of them when you work alone... Your dedication (hell yeah, I'm back on topic!) is more likely to fade when you work alone, you'll be overwhelmed at some point with tons of things to do that you don't really know how to handle. Sorry about the wall of text (again). :)
Yep, you need to know a little bit of all the aspects of course, but what matters when you're in a team is to be the best in the group for at least one particular task. People need to be able to rely on you when it's needed.
For a good map 5 years start to finish using a team of 5+ map makers.
I'm glad the video games industry doesn't work as slowly as you do. :D
Seriously though, any kind of project in SC2 shouldn't take more than 3 months to be done (if made alone), it doesn't mean it cannot be improved later. The core should be done pretty quick, what takes the most time is usually visual effects and polishing (gameplay, pathing, performance,...).
@Mozared: Go
There is no boreing part to terraining :D
Not true, unfortunately. Just talking about SC2 here but pathing is a pain, when you have to manage where air units can or cannot go it's boring as hell. When you have to move and/or remove props to make sure the way is clear where it needs to be, it's a pain (especially for melee maps, the whole balance depends on it). When you have to put path and/or sight blockers in your map by hundreds (if not thousands), it's also very boring. When you have to reduce the number of doodads so that the map won't lag on BNet, it's even a suicide. :D
as I was told once in IRC - I shouldnt be asking questions cause if I can't fgure it out I'm fucked, no one else has done what I've done before.
It's sad, but sometimes it's also very true. As I said above it's not like level/game design is something you can learn 100% by the book. I understand why people would say that. It's true that anyone, at some point, cannot do more than just guess. The sad thing is people telling you're fucked (not only in IRC) are usually less skilled than you are and/or too lazy to search for a clue.
It's usually rare to be able to rely on your teammates when you are in the video games industry, basically because they already have a lot of work on their own... But it's even more true with skilled amateurs (or experts, to quote Nebuli2 :) ), just because they usually are more or less at the same level as you are. I have been using the Unreal Engine since I'm 12, I'm way better at it than the few pros I've been working with (I could be a mentor, really... I already had the opportunity to)... And yet, if you ask me to do a cinematic with this engine, I'd need a complete tutorial because I never spent enough time mastering this part of the editor.
Anyway, it was just to let people know that even pros are going completely random sometimes, mastering an editor doesn't give you the answer to everything. Don't ever forget that both level and game design are full-time jobs for a reason. People telling you're shit have basically no idea what it is to work on projects where you don't know where you're going, if they ever did that they would not hesitate to help you with their knowledge... Even if it's inaccurate, it's still a clue.
I may be a little off-topic here since I won't be talking about SOPA, but in case you're interested... We had an anti-piracy group in France which was called Hadopi, basically its goal was to protect copyright laws on internet (about music mainly, but also controlling P2P, torrent downloads, etc.). It had to be shut down the 24th of December last year, because 3 of its members couldn't be part of this group anymore (for legal issues concerning their status in the government). The very own existence of Hadopi became illegal because they were not enough anymore for the group to exist. The funny thing is someone in L'Elysee (official residence of the president) was also downloading MP3s illegally from one of the computers in the office...
Just to say I wouldn't worry THAT much about SOPA. It will eventually die of its own, or so I hope...
-How much dedication is needed to finish up a map?
Depends on the salary. :D
Joke aside, it mostly depends on how much you think your project/map will succeed I guess...
I have done maps for console games I don't give a damn about, the maps were as boring to play as they were to build. If I hadn't a deadline to meet, I wouldn't have finished any of them. On my free time though, I have always spent a few hours here and there, polishing the result so that I could say to myself "you did good today, it's nice and funny as expected" or something like that I could be proud of. I was very enthusiastic about my Ikari Warriors map until I reached v2: I can't go further into improving/completing the map until I receive feedback, so my dedication has drastically faded over time. It doesn't mean I stop working on it, I'm just not spending as much time on it as I used to when the idea was brand new.
How do you carry on? It bores the hell out of me, so much that I just give up :(
Working for too long on something always has this effect. You either have to learn to work faster (experience helps here, so it doesn't matter if you do tons of shitty maps that you'll never finish, as long as it helps you master the editor a bit better), or as JademusSreg said keep focusing on one task/mod/map until it's completely done. Try not to keep the boring parts for the end, it's probably what kills your motivation. I'm not much of a coder myself, so I basically try to build the gameplay mechanics ASAP while my motivation is at its best. I "give my map a nice look" later, when I'm starting to be less interested in the project, to be sure I'll enjoy working on it anyway.
You misunderstand, I didn't say it's a rip-off, I just said it's toned down. There's a difference. By toned down, I mean it's not as complex. Which I do fancy. Simple is best IMO.
My bad then.
Back on topic, we won't see a Minecraft-like gameplay in SC2 until the pathing method is entirely redone to accept units walking over AND above doodads... Sad, but true. The SC2 engine is not done for such games and you can't have access to its SDK. There is also the matter of cliff heights: In WC3, you basically could add as much cliff heights as you wanted, in SC2 you can't have more than 3 (4 if you include pits as a cliff height).
Looks like a trigger is messing with the movements of your units. It seems they receive more orders than the ones you give manually. Try removing all your triggers and running your map, if the units move correctly again you'll have to check which trigger is wrong. I'm having a guess but here are clues I think of based on your video:
-you probably have a periodic trigger giving orders to units in region (overwriting your orders)
-units are probably ordered to move to a waypoint that is out of reach (no ground pathing available) => in that case, try spawning air units just to check
-check that you didn't mess with the pathing tool, it would explain your units won't come back in the forbidden region if you painted it as "unpathable"
Sorry to be a pain in the ass about it, but calling yourselves "pro" sounds very wrong to me... If you don't edit/build levels for a living, you're NOT a pro. I'm just stating the obvious here. You're more like "skilled amateurs", you make maps just for fun and I'm also pretty sure you don't master multiple level editors as pros have to. Who, among us all, already have 6+ months of experience in the video games industry? As I said earlier, besides one member here and myself, I don't know of any. Even pros make lots of mistakes, it's not like these kinds of jobs can be learned 100% by the book.
As far as I can tell, the guys treating others like garbage are just egocentric bitches, and they are nowhere near pros themselves. Based on that, you shouldn't even listen to them. They won't give you any better advice than anyone, chances are they're just trying to impress. You can't change people, but at least you can leave stupid ones aside. I agree the search function in our forums could use some improvements, but still, when you learn how to use it properly 95% of your questions (as a newbie, that is) will find an answer or at least a clue here. That's all you'll need, the rest is up to your own creativity and dedication.
Using voxels doesn't make this game a clone or a rip-off of Minecraft... If you go that way, MW3 is a clone of Doom. Virtua Tennis is a rip-off of Pong. Any MMORPG is a clone of WoW. It just makes no sense at all. Minecraft just had the luck of being the first to provide a gameplay based 100% on using voxels, but voxels have existed for much longer than you think (ever heard of Comanche from NovaLogic?)... This game uses RTS gameplay mechanics (units micro/macro), which is nowhere near what Minecraft has to offer. Please, there's a huge difference between a clone/rip-off and something using the same technology and/or gameplay mechanics. ;)
Anyway, their game project looks fun. And since they're in Montreal I think I'll pay them a visit pretty soon... If they have a job to offer it would be perfect for me, I'm about to leave Europe for a year and that's where I'm heading.
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@Zetal: Go
I don't think the wave effect used by the swarm guardian is part of any animation... Something tells me it's exactly the same process as in zealots with their hair, or corruptors with their "tails". If you look closely, these parts of the models are not animated using keyframes (which is the usual process used for animating 3D models, in which case you should have had results with what you've done), but instead it's animated using some kind of a script (ie. it's procedural animation, meaning it's real-time and following rules like gravity and such). So basically, I don't think you'll ever be able to stop these parts from moving unless you find the specific part of code which generates the rules applying to the swarm guardian body/tail.
Chances are this thing is hard-coded in the SC2 engine, so you're out of luck... If any part can be edited, I guess you may find a hint in Data, in a tab related to the engine itself, physics settings, or anything like that. There is probably a way to find out which unit gets which rules from which file, applied to which part of the model... But it will obviously be very complicated, just to find it! You may even have to edit the models themselves in a 3D engine (Maya, 3DSMax), and find if there is a dummy of some sort linked to an external script. Not worth the time and effort, if you ask me...
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I don't like CNN either, I just found this link first when browsing. But anyway, CNN or not, MegaUpload is a piracy hub, they've been caught red-handed. The site was well-known for this, and it helped them gaining notoriety. If MegaUpload was so huge, it's mostly because people shared illegal content on it. And MegaUpload let them do. So yes, no matter what we think of CNN, the facts are here and MegaUpload was responsible. They're not a piracy hub that can be compared to The Pirate Bay, but still, they did allow piracy and even made money out of it. It's kind of silly to blame the law for doing its job... It just seem fair to me that they got caught, we knew from the very beginning it could happen because we knew what was going on there.
Still, it doesn't mean we have to agree about the site being closed, or SOPA being voted. And that's precisely why I'm kind of glad Anonymous took part in this. Like I said earlier I'm not that worried about SOPA anyway, because even if they have the law with them, anti-piracy groups can't do shit. The internet medias are way too quick and way too hard to control, by the time they shut something down it will be "cloned" elsewhere in the world and they won't be able to control it. Hackers will always find a way to bypass such things, if SOPA is voted they can already prepare themselves for a huge mayhem orchestrated by the hackers they're trying to stop. There's no way something like SOPA could last. It's not the first law trying to control internet and it won't be the last, and I'm pretty sure it will fail miserably just like the others.
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@Zolstice: Go
Don't get mad from what I'm going to say but... What you did is pretty close to what I did. 7 years later, the first job opportunity where I don't feel like shit appears in Canada. I'm going there this year, I'm just waiting for the answer from the immigration department (only a matter of days, maybe weeks now). If this doesn't work, I'm definitely giving up my hopes of working in the video games industry for a living. I'm either not made for such a job, or there is something wrong in this industry. I'd rather think it's just me, but who knows...
You're obviously more of an artist than a programmer, but it doesn't mean you can work in both the 3D movies industry and the video games industry. They're absolutely not the same. In the video games industry your models have a limited polygons count, textures size, limited shaders, etc... Basically you have an entire part of the job about optimizing the models and effects for real-time rendering. It doesn't work like that in the 3D movies industry. When making a movie, you have multiple jobs working together to get the best render possible (lightings, motions, cameras, SFX/VFX,...). It's basically closer to movies than video games, both don't follow the same rules. You must be aware of that for your career choice, because if you work in the video games industry I don't think you'll ever be accepted to work on a 3D movie (and vice-versa). Basically, aim for Ubi/EA/Bliz OR Disney/Pixar, but you can't have both.
If you want my opinion, EA is the worst company to work in. It's a huge industry, you're a little ant in the anthill and nobody cares about what you think or want, or even your private life. Ubisoft is a good compromise IMO, but someone I met from Ubisoft in Montreal (he's in the mid-30 I think) already thinks Ubisoft is becoming another EA. I already considered working at Blizzard but I'm not sure what it's like. Probably like Eidos, a very secretive company and you can't get a job there if you don't have 5+ years of experience and at least three AAA games in your CV. Actually, to be completely honest with everyone thinking they could make it in the video games industry, if you don't have 2 years of experience and worked on at least 1 famous title, chances are you won't get ANY job in the video games industry.
This is why I'm moving to Canada (pretty much my last hope here), this is also why at 27 I'm considering switching to another career. I'm fed up with working on titles like My Little Pony on DS to earn $300 a week and feel like shit (especially with girls). I've used the Unreal Editor long enough to teach people how to use it, so I'm planning on being a teacher in level design. I have found a college in Montreal where they needed someone like me, so I hope it will go well. But the truth is, ANY job NOT even remotely close to the video games industry is fine by me now... I'll keep my passion for level design and maps/mods making for my spare time, even if it means working solo and not getting any feedback or support. Maybe a good compromise would be to start my own company and start developing indie games, actually I've already considered doing this... But again, I'd rather do that in my spare time rather than making a living out of it.
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One of my teachers once said she had 3 jobs before being a teacher. I wouldn't worry if I were you, having multiple jobs is quite normal and way more interesting (for personal accomplishment... and probably sanity as well).
If you're older than 25, forget the idea. Pro players are chosen very young by pro teams because the muscles in their hands are in better shape than us adults. I'm not kidding... The thing is when you get older your accuracy and your reflexes are getting worse, so you're more "valuable" to a team when you're young.
Just to answer the topic now, I wanted to be part of the video games industry since I was a kid (literally). I really wanted to do this as an adult, and spent way too much time in that purpose. The thing is, now I have what I always wanted. And it sucks. Really. I'm 27, it's been 7 years of hard work, doubts, almost no social life, and now I'm looking for jobs as a teacher rather than a level designer. I still like this industry but I've seen its dark side now, and it's not as funny as it seems.
I'd rather get a job where I don't feel like crap when I get home (late), I want a real life with friends and social activities, a girlfriend that won't complain about my job and/or extra hours, etc... Meet me in 10 years and I'll probably say something completely different, but for now I'm kind of in a mood where I need to switch to something else. The point of my little story being "do NOT idealize video games jobs". I know I'll still be an addict to level editing, but I'm just not sure it's worth making a living out of it.
It kind of hurts my feelings when people are saying (with tiny sparkles in their eyes) that they WANT to go pro. It sure is interesting, but it's not easy at all. You'll be treated like shit most of the time, you will feel like you've been working for nothing when you'll see how people react to your work (pros, colleagues, reviewers, players, maybe even family, etc...). It's not much of a big deal once in a while, but when it happens daily and all around you it's really painful. I don't want people to think that because they have fun programming things and/or making maps and mods, it will be as fun if they become pro. Being pro is nowhere as fun as making maps in your spare time.
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It's not related to SOPA (though I admit the timing is quite... convenient), but I think you guys will be interested in knowing that MegaUpload has been shut down for illegal activities by American feds.
Here's a detailed article I found in English:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/01/19/megaupload-gets-shutdown-by-feds/
EDIT: ...And the immediate response from Anonymous (the famous hackers group fighting for internet freedom and freedom of speech) is mentioned here:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/19/technology/megaupload_shutdown/
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Isn't it planned to be fixed in HotS? I'm not sure but I think they talked about localization issues during Blizzcon last year. But you're right though, unfortunately random people testing maps are somehow expecting melee maps and/or simple game mechanics they could understand without reading anything. Nobody understands the objectives in my Sand Worm Survival map even though they are all displayed in the upper left corner during THE WHOLE EFFING GAME! It's pretty simple: hunt one race, protect yourself against the other. Yet nobody gets it. In Ikari Warriors controls are displayed on the loading screen (not much to say besides "move with arrows and throw grenades with mouse"), and people keep wondering how it works... Geeks these days...
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@JademusSreg: Go
Map making in the video games industry is teamwork. It's not only to meet deadlines and reduce development cost, it's also because we expect each guy in the team to be specialized in what he does (Mozared is right about that). If you have an interview with a pro for a job in level design, the first thing he'll ask is "are you more of a world builder, more into placing props, or more into scripting?" (real life experience here). There is no such thing as a "level designer god" who's able to handle the 3 parts on its own (OK, as far as I can tell there are 2 or 3 of them... in the entire world, and I'm not kidding). I really suck at scripting so I'm really glad someone could do this part for me and/or help in case I need something.
That's also true. But the thing is it's not only about teamwork. There is also a magic tool called NOMENCLATURE. You can't work efficiently as a team in the example you just gave, because it's not really a team. It's more like everyone in your so-called team is trying to do it his own way, which ends up in a pretty messy work obviously. It happens a lot with amateurs, but it's because they are not organized enough. And amateurs are probably too proud of themselves, not really willing to work as a team... As I said many times, level design is a job, not anybody can do it and it's not as easy as it seems... I know how to cook noodles, it doesn't mean I can open a restaurant tomorrow.
Working as a team means planning things, prior to making them. When everyone is OK with what they have to do, there's no trouble and it goes fluently. No such thing as "hey, who the hell changed the name of my variable? I lost 2 days of work here!"... When a version goes wrong, we know exactly which day it happened, so we know who was in charge, and what is messed up. It sometimes look like an "assembly line" indeed, but who told you level design is not repetitive in the first place? Every job has its flaws. You have no choice but to repeat the same tasks again and again, in fact you have 3 times more of them when you work alone... Your dedication (hell yeah, I'm back on topic!) is more likely to fade when you work alone, you'll be overwhelmed at some point with tons of things to do that you don't really know how to handle. Sorry about the wall of text (again). :)
@Taintedwisp: Go
Yep, you need to know a little bit of all the aspects of course, but what matters when you're in a team is to be the best in the group for at least one particular task. People need to be able to rely on you when it's needed.
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I'm glad the video games industry doesn't work as slowly as you do. :D
Seriously though, any kind of project in SC2 shouldn't take more than 3 months to be done (if made alone), it doesn't mean it cannot be improved later. The core should be done pretty quick, what takes the most time is usually visual effects and polishing (gameplay, pathing, performance,...).
Quoted for truth, words of wisdom award.
Not true, unfortunately. Just talking about SC2 here but pathing is a pain, when you have to manage where air units can or cannot go it's boring as hell. When you have to move and/or remove props to make sure the way is clear where it needs to be, it's a pain (especially for melee maps, the whole balance depends on it). When you have to put path and/or sight blockers in your map by hundreds (if not thousands), it's also very boring. When you have to reduce the number of doodads so that the map won't lag on BNet, it's even a suicide. :D
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It's sad, but sometimes it's also very true. As I said above it's not like level/game design is something you can learn 100% by the book. I understand why people would say that. It's true that anyone, at some point, cannot do more than just guess. The sad thing is people telling you're fucked (not only in IRC) are usually less skilled than you are and/or too lazy to search for a clue.
It's usually rare to be able to rely on your teammates when you are in the video games industry, basically because they already have a lot of work on their own... But it's even more true with skilled amateurs (or experts, to quote Nebuli2 :) ), just because they usually are more or less at the same level as you are. I have been using the Unreal Engine since I'm 12, I'm way better at it than the few pros I've been working with (I could be a mentor, really... I already had the opportunity to)... And yet, if you ask me to do a cinematic with this engine, I'd need a complete tutorial because I never spent enough time mastering this part of the editor.
Anyway, it was just to let people know that even pros are going completely random sometimes, mastering an editor doesn't give you the answer to everything. Don't ever forget that both level and game design are full-time jobs for a reason. People telling you're shit have basically no idea what it is to work on projects where you don't know where you're going, if they ever did that they would not hesitate to help you with their knowledge... Even if it's inaccurate, it's still a clue.
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I may be a little off-topic here since I won't be talking about SOPA, but in case you're interested... We had an anti-piracy group in France which was called Hadopi, basically its goal was to protect copyright laws on internet (about music mainly, but also controlling P2P, torrent downloads, etc.). It had to be shut down the 24th of December last year, because 3 of its members couldn't be part of this group anymore (for legal issues concerning their status in the government). The very own existence of Hadopi became illegal because they were not enough anymore for the group to exist. The funny thing is someone in L'Elysee (official residence of the president) was also downloading MP3s illegally from one of the computers in the office...
Just to say I wouldn't worry THAT much about SOPA. It will eventually die of its own, or so I hope...
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Depends on the salary. :D Joke aside, it mostly depends on how much you think your project/map will succeed I guess... I have done maps for console games I don't give a damn about, the maps were as boring to play as they were to build. If I hadn't a deadline to meet, I wouldn't have finished any of them. On my free time though, I have always spent a few hours here and there, polishing the result so that I could say to myself "you did good today, it's nice and funny as expected" or something like that I could be proud of. I was very enthusiastic about my Ikari Warriors map until I reached v2: I can't go further into improving/completing the map until I receive feedback, so my dedication has drastically faded over time. It doesn't mean I stop working on it, I'm just not spending as much time on it as I used to when the idea was brand new.
Working for too long on something always has this effect. You either have to learn to work faster (experience helps here, so it doesn't matter if you do tons of shitty maps that you'll never finish, as long as it helps you master the editor a bit better), or as JademusSreg said keep focusing on one task/mod/map until it's completely done. Try not to keep the boring parts for the end, it's probably what kills your motivation. I'm not much of a coder myself, so I basically try to build the gameplay mechanics ASAP while my motivation is at its best. I "give my map a nice look" later, when I'm starting to be less interested in the project, to be sure I'll enjoy working on it anyway.
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My bad then.
Back on topic, we won't see a Minecraft-like gameplay in SC2 until the pathing method is entirely redone to accept units walking over AND above doodads... Sad, but true. The SC2 engine is not done for such games and you can't have access to its SDK. There is also the matter of cliff heights: In WC3, you basically could add as much cliff heights as you wanted, in SC2 you can't have more than 3 (4 if you include pits as a cliff height).
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Looks like a trigger is messing with the movements of your units. It seems they receive more orders than the ones you give manually. Try removing all your triggers and running your map, if the units move correctly again you'll have to check which trigger is wrong. I'm having a guess but here are clues I think of based on your video:
-you probably have a periodic trigger giving orders to units in region (overwriting your orders)
-units are probably ordered to move to a waypoint that is out of reach (no ground pathing available) => in that case, try spawning air units just to check
-check that you didn't mess with the pathing tool, it would explain your units won't come back in the forbidden region if you painted it as "unpathable"
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Sorry to be a pain in the ass about it, but calling yourselves "pro" sounds very wrong to me... If you don't edit/build levels for a living, you're NOT a pro. I'm just stating the obvious here. You're more like "skilled amateurs", you make maps just for fun and I'm also pretty sure you don't master multiple level editors as pros have to. Who, among us all, already have 6+ months of experience in the video games industry? As I said earlier, besides one member here and myself, I don't know of any. Even pros make lots of mistakes, it's not like these kinds of jobs can be learned 100% by the book.
As far as I can tell, the guys treating others like garbage are just egocentric bitches, and they are nowhere near pros themselves. Based on that, you shouldn't even listen to them. They won't give you any better advice than anyone, chances are they're just trying to impress. You can't change people, but at least you can leave stupid ones aside. I agree the search function in our forums could use some improvements, but still, when you learn how to use it properly 95% of your questions (as a newbie, that is) will find an answer or at least a clue here. That's all you'll need, the rest is up to your own creativity and dedication.
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Using voxels doesn't make this game a clone or a rip-off of Minecraft... If you go that way, MW3 is a clone of Doom. Virtua Tennis is a rip-off of Pong. Any MMORPG is a clone of WoW. It just makes no sense at all. Minecraft just had the luck of being the first to provide a gameplay based 100% on using voxels, but voxels have existed for much longer than you think (ever heard of Comanche from NovaLogic?)... This game uses RTS gameplay mechanics (units micro/macro), which is nowhere near what Minecraft has to offer. Please, there's a huge difference between a clone/rip-off and something using the same technology and/or gameplay mechanics. ;)
Anyway, their game project looks fun. And since they're in Montreal I think I'll pay them a visit pretty soon... If they have a job to offer it would be perfect for me, I'm about to leave Europe for a year and that's where I'm heading.