Just being realistic. I agree totally in the progressive nature of
developing a map. Thats the main reason Dota became what it is today.
Yet, how many map-makers though are actually doing that?, Gathering
feedback, making improvements?. Very very few. The majority of
map-makers simply dont care.
I can't speak to this since I haven't played too too many custom maps on SC 2 (mainly focusing on campaign and learning the galaxy editor, plus fixing my woefully eroded microing skills in occasional melee games) so I don't know how many map makers are focusing on improving their maps, but from how generally active the tutorials section of this site is with questions and answers I'd have to say that a lot of people are doing the right thing and trying to expand their knowledge base so that they can make better maps. Maybe some people throw together a broken piece of crap and then try and shine it into a diamond, but those people are always going to exist; if they're the majority than it's a problem, but I haven't nesscessarily seen evidence of that.
I personally, am not going to play-test every custom map out there, and
I think most people wont either. So it really is in the best interest of
the map-makers just to atleast take their maps a bit seriously,
otherwise they end up wasting their time and that of the people that
play.
Part of the problem in terms of playtesting maps is that sorting system to find custom games right now leaves a LOT to be desired. Right now, in order to play a game, you need to be able to find it, but in order to be able to find it, it needs to be popular, but in order to be popular, you need people to play it. That seems to support maps which already have a massive amount of hype behind them, so that new mapmakers are getting left behind because no one plays their games, they get no feedback on them, and thus when anyone does play them their opinion is "Dude, this sucks, you need to get some people to test this and iron out the bugs". Then even that person never opens the map again so no one touches it and it never improves. Map maker gets frustrated and quits, and the lasting impression is that his map sucks, he sucks, and his mother and or his significant other sucks. In reality, it's a fault of a system that maps don't improve; while there is personal blame to go around for people who create lousy maps and have no intention of ever making them better, it's hard to put any serious effort into making a map better right now with the system set up the way it is.
Its about creating a win/win situation for everyone here, thus map
makers need to do their bit too.
I also think part of your arguement is flawed in that you seem to set the standard at maps like Nexus Wars and DotA. These maps are NOT new; they went through a lot of bug fixing, playtesting, rebalancing, and rescripting to get to where they are. Also, maps like that tend to be made by people who have a very firm and solid grasp of the tools, so it's unfair to expect most maps to be of a similar quality. Moreoever, there's no reason for a map maker to WANT to make an epic map. The point of making a map is to have fun and make a fun game. I made a few maps for SC 1 when it was new that were, comperably to the big, epic maps with thousands and thousands of triggers, incredibly simple, bland, and boring. But I made them for my friends and I to have fun while playing the game, and modifying it to suit the way we wanted to play. There's nothing wrong with making a map for a minority of people as opposed to trying to make a map that pleases everyone. Not every map maker wants to make the next DotA. Some people just want to make the next Zerg Soccer, and that's fine; they shouldn't give up their work on the editor and go cry in the corner just because their ambition isn't epic enough.
You learn from experience, so most of the first post in this thread can be disregarded. The probablity of someone making a white hot map their first go out is extremely low, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't publish maps. What it does mean is that when people publish maps, and get feedback, they should incorporate that into making a better product. The only way to fail at making maps is to make a bad map, then get upset when people don't like it and quit making maps. If you roll with the punches, take your licks, and hone your craft, then every bad map you publish is just progress towards a final, quality product.
Stop being so negative man. Put down the haterade and join the community.
0
I can't speak to this since I haven't played too too many custom maps on SC 2 (mainly focusing on campaign and learning the galaxy editor, plus fixing my woefully eroded microing skills in occasional melee games) so I don't know how many map makers are focusing on improving their maps, but from how generally active the tutorials section of this site is with questions and answers I'd have to say that a lot of people are doing the right thing and trying to expand their knowledge base so that they can make better maps. Maybe some people throw together a broken piece of crap and then try and shine it into a diamond, but those people are always going to exist; if they're the majority than it's a problem, but I haven't nesscessarily seen evidence of that.
Part of the problem in terms of playtesting maps is that sorting system to find custom games right now leaves a LOT to be desired. Right now, in order to play a game, you need to be able to find it, but in order to be able to find it, it needs to be popular, but in order to be popular, you need people to play it. That seems to support maps which already have a massive amount of hype behind them, so that new mapmakers are getting left behind because no one plays their games, they get no feedback on them, and thus when anyone does play them their opinion is "Dude, this sucks, you need to get some people to test this and iron out the bugs". Then even that person never opens the map again so no one touches it and it never improves. Map maker gets frustrated and quits, and the lasting impression is that his map sucks, he sucks, and his mother and or his significant other sucks. In reality, it's a fault of a system that maps don't improve; while there is personal blame to go around for people who create lousy maps and have no intention of ever making them better, it's hard to put any serious effort into making a map better right now with the system set up the way it is.
I also think part of your arguement is flawed in that you seem to set the standard at maps like Nexus Wars and DotA. These maps are NOT new; they went through a lot of bug fixing, playtesting, rebalancing, and rescripting to get to where they are. Also, maps like that tend to be made by people who have a very firm and solid grasp of the tools, so it's unfair to expect most maps to be of a similar quality. Moreoever, there's no reason for a map maker to WANT to make an epic map. The point of making a map is to have fun and make a fun game. I made a few maps for SC 1 when it was new that were, comperably to the big, epic maps with thousands and thousands of triggers, incredibly simple, bland, and boring. But I made them for my friends and I to have fun while playing the game, and modifying it to suit the way we wanted to play. There's nothing wrong with making a map for a minority of people as opposed to trying to make a map that pleases everyone. Not every map maker wants to make the next DotA. Some people just want to make the next Zerg Soccer, and that's fine; they shouldn't give up their work on the editor and go cry in the corner just because their ambition isn't epic enough.
0
You learn from experience, so most of the first post in this thread can be disregarded. The probablity of someone making a white hot map their first go out is extremely low, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't publish maps. What it does mean is that when people publish maps, and get feedback, they should incorporate that into making a better product. The only way to fail at making maps is to make a bad map, then get upset when people don't like it and quit making maps. If you roll with the punches, take your licks, and hone your craft, then every bad map you publish is just progress towards a final, quality product.
Stop being so negative man. Put down the haterade and join the community.
0
You definitely need a stealth boy, son.
0
@triumph69420: Go
I REALLY like that. It reminds me a lot of Pitch Black.