Well if it's to anyones interest, I just released a new update, the primary change is that I put in a save slot. You can now currently save a single build for each race. Please let me know if you come across any bugs while playing this mod, I will be busy for the next couple weeks and any feedback here would be greatly appreciated.
You should really give Terrans the Diamondback, and perhaps the Hunterling from the Left 2 Die mod to the Zerg as a Hydra evolution.
At it's current stage I'm not ready to implement Campaign or Custom map units just yet, the Diamondback used to be in the beta before it was taken out for being "Too effective against protoss players." At any rate, that doesn't mean that those units won't go in, just not yet.
I need to research the value of the 3 race's current tech trees, for both SC1 and SC2, to find appropriate costs for their tech and unique upgrades.
Though believe me, there will be custom made units in the future, along with the campaign units.
On a side note, new update was just released, added the ability for zerg and terran players to disable upgrades at evolution chamber, engineering bay, armory, and spire to gain additional points for upgrades. Up next will be the individual tech and abilities of the zerg, then the terran. After that will be some serious point adjustments and balance testing.
I appreciate the concern, though the mod was openly available on Battle.net for public use.
I never intended to steal credit for the models or the assets, I only wished to utilize them to help spread the concept I created. It's not like we are making any money off these mods.
Regardless though I appologize if I upset anyone because of this, I am very grateful that you informed me of the sources for some of these models however, because I would be extremely grateful to ask permission for some more of these fantastically made models for my mod. And I remember following project revolution from the day I discovered it, they did a fantastic job working on those models for Warcraft 3, it's great to hear their work is continuing over into Starcraft 2.
Published a new update to the mod for all the maps, essentially just fixed some bug's that I noticed, also adjusted some of the point costs.
The point cost's for Zerg and Terran are nowhere near final, some of them are copy-pasted and I was too lazy to really make them appropriate. If anyone testing the mod have any suggestions feel free to leave them here, I would like to hear what people have to say.
When dealing with a Blizzard map, you need to download the map, then save it. After you've saved it, close it and open it again, and save it a second time. Now it should work. If not, try renaming it after the second save.
Thanks! That just saved me hours of experimenting. Intriguing that immediately when I open metalopolis that I had saved on my computer, the library was completely absent.
Well now I can actually get some playable maps up for everyone to try the mod out on.
Right now I'm encountering a very annoying bug, maybe someone here can help me.
Whenever I try to import my library into a blizzard map to prepare it for publishing, I delete the default trigger yet when I start up the map, all of the triggers in my library refuse to start and the default trigger THAT I DELETED still launches.
I don't seem to understand how this happens and it only occur's on certain maps. I'm sure that there is something that I changed to make it stop happening but I can't quite place my finger on it.
So if I wanted a superior air force as protoss you're saying I can specialize my faction that way? But protoss air sucks in sc2 so how would that be balanced?
That's why the protoss have access to the Corsair, Scout, and Arbiter in this mod. They are the missing pieces to the Protoss Air Force.
So yes you very much can, and if you feel you might be crippled early game then you can either try to setup a 1v1 turtle strat or find a 2v2 partner to give you backup.
If your refering to the valkyrie and corsair, I based this off another mod, the SC1vsSC2 mod. So a great kudo's to the people that made those models, now if only someone could make a devourer model we can have the whole party back.
Color me interested! It would've been much more easy to start with Terran, seeing as how they have the most units in the game, but since Protoss are my favorite faction, you actually deserve a high-five for this from me. :P
Actually, BECAUSE the terran have the most units, they are actually the hardest to work with. The concept of terran is their versatility, being so making upgrades for them is a very hard task. Terran usually end up having the most activated abilities and tech that handles multiple situations. In the end Protoss are my favorite race as well so I felt I would be able to give them a fair level of upgrades without going overboard.
Mainly I could judge the worth of the units better because I've tried them in multiplayer myself, for the other races however I'm not as experienced so most of those are based off the video's and replay's that I've seen.
Right now the game is essentially untested, the values I put in ARE mostly just ones that I created from my judgement. They are not final however, I merely have the current values in as a base to know where to start.
As to how I got the point values, I mostly just compared the unit's overall usefulness to generalized situations. Units that you absolutely need in order to survive are worth alot of points, where as units you can survive without are worth less. Generally the point values can also change if units recieve big updates as a result of Blizzard's balance updates.
Essentially, you can win 90% of games without ever making a carrier, so disabling a carrier doesn't grant that many points, upgrading one however can be expensive depending on what the carrier ends up getting. Disabling the stalker however is worth alot more points, as the unit is generally an effective bread and butter unit that can be used in almost all situations, disabling the zealot would leave you vulnerable to rushes and leave you without a unit to pump excess minerals into.
I wouldn't expect all the point values to be perfectly balanced the day I make it, starcraft 1's balance wasn't made in a day. The point is to get the concept across to the public and let extensive testing determine the proper point values.
To more directly answer your question, my method of determine a base point value is similar to how the tier list in fighting games would be made, I explore several strategies and tactics that involve the unit or tech (Multiplayer replays and videos), and see how many different strategies these items can be used against. If I see 1 particular item only used in one very specific strat, then obviously it's situation, however if I see something used in every game consistently, then it's obviously got a more general importance.
Added a youtube video to hopefully summarize the wall of text.
When I can compress some actual gameplay footage I'll post that too, but essentially it plays just like your general ladder game, only with additional units and certain tech that can give certain edges.
The bonus's are "in theory" designed to be subtle, in a sense the upgrades to core units such as stalkers, marines, roaches, or any others you can think of, mainly get bonus's that don't even affect their primary use.
Rather grant them an bonus in a use that they aren't normally used for, such as increased sight range on stalkers, or improved melee damage on a roach, or siege tanks that fight better in regular tank mode.
The purpose of this is rather obvious, I want to encourage unorthodox gameplay so that every game feels different. For example when you scout your opponent at the very beginning, it will become even more difficult to determine what they are getting, and this can even impact what you might see in the mid and late game.
CURRENTLY PLAYABLE
search for "Faction Mode" to find the maps I have this mod currently up for. It's still a work in progress however so bug's are to be expected, but I feel it's time that other people get to try this mod out.
Go to channel "factionmode" for testing and mod discussion.
I would like to inform you all about the latest project I have been working on. Basically the project is a mod, which means that it can be imported into any map (Blizzard or custom made) and used to play it.
The mod's concept is simple, anyone here who has played either Age of Empires, Command and Conquer, or Rise of Nations would notice that some of those games use a single race and simply modify it statistically and either replace or add unique features such as a unique unit, tech, or ability.
The way this mod works is very similar in that concept, the mod works off of Starcraft 2's basic ladder, however instead of simply creating a few factions for the players to use and play around with. I thought it would be more interesting to use a separate concept.
Players can make their own faction, creating their own strengths, weakness's, and choosing their own unique units, tech, and abilities.
Here is a screenshot showing the User Interface for the Protoss
And heres a youtube video as well
Yes, you saw correctly, all of the Starcraft 1 units are there, this mod used the Sc1 vs Sc2 mod as a base, so all of the Starcraft 1 units for every race will be fully available, some might be slightly adjusted to make them compatible with the newer units.
The Faction design per player is setup like this, every unit and tech in the game is worth points, the point value is how vital the unit or tech is to winning a normal Ladder Game. By default all tech normally available in Starcraft 2 Ladder will be automatically enabled. Players may then choose to Disable individual Units/Tech/Abilities to gain their cost in points. These points can then be used on other areas to improve the players faction.
For example, Say a player playing as the protoss decides to shut off the Phoenix, as the phoenix is a rather situational unit it's point cost is rather low, so the points can be used on an inexpensive upgrade, such as reducing the delay time it takes for zealots to begin recharging their shields.
Now if that player were to instead disable their Stalker, they would be granted a much higher amount of points, as they effectively shut off a very important that could cost them the game. The points they are granted however, can allow them to make other units more effective and can possibly replace the stalker in it's use if used correctly.
Players that are even brave enough to shut off their detectors, or leave themselves with no tier 1 tech, are granted with special compensation's designed to give them a fighting chance, should another player be attempt to exploit their glaring weakness. Needless to say, team games will end up having a big part on this mod.
Basically the purpose of this mod is to break the staleness of Starcraft 2 Ladder. I am not attempting to claim myself better than blizzard at balancing nor do I claim myself a masterful player at ladder. I am simply just bored of seeing every ladder game consist of the same general build orders being repeated in every game. This mod is being made for fun, it will allow players to setup unusual strategies and utilize units in a different way.
This will also allow players to use Starcraft 1 units to fight against Starcraft 2 units, even though other maps and mod's have done this before, my mod attempts to better balance this combination out, but in a more unique way.
Currently a Youtube video is being uploaded to demonstrate the UI, if anyone is interested in testing this mod out please let me know, I will hold Testing Sessions regularly.
I encountered this very same issue while trying to work with my mod.
I have not 100% found the solution yet, but I noticed that the library doesn't get fully imported when the mod is set as a dependency. Sometimes doing a certain action like copying a trigger from the library will make the entire library work but othertimes it's the same issue as what your having, it just simply doesn't start up.
I'll have a look into this more closely and see if I can discover how to get libraries and mod's to better communicate with each other.
Only method I know of how to test a mod without publishing is to Open the test map, and load the mod into it's depencies, then test the map. This however ends up resulting in more steps as whenever you make updates to the mod, you have to reload the dependency on the map or close and open the map for any change you make.
If you still have this issue, I'd suggest going to the command card of the UNIT with the ability, and removing the requirement from the ability on the UNITS COMMAND CARD. This is an issue I came across as well, the ability has it's own requirement, if you put a requirement on the button for the units command card, and I think if you don't meet the requirement, the costs won't display.
This may be an old thread, but at least now anyone that searches for this has the answer.
0
Well if it's to anyones interest, I just released a new update, the primary change is that I put in a save slot. You can now currently save a single build for each race. Please let me know if you come across any bugs while playing this mod, I will be busy for the next couple weeks and any feedback here would be greatly appreciated.
0
At it's current stage I'm not ready to implement Campaign or Custom map units just yet, the Diamondback used to be in the beta before it was taken out for being "Too effective against protoss players." At any rate, that doesn't mean that those units won't go in, just not yet.
I need to research the value of the 3 race's current tech trees, for both SC1 and SC2, to find appropriate costs for their tech and unique upgrades.
Though believe me, there will be custom made units in the future, along with the campaign units.
On a side note, new update was just released, added the ability for zerg and terran players to disable upgrades at evolution chamber, engineering bay, armory, and spire to gain additional points for upgrades. Up next will be the individual tech and abilities of the zerg, then the terran. After that will be some serious point adjustments and balance testing.
0
@maverck: Go
I appreciate the concern, though the mod was openly available on Battle.net for public use.
I never intended to steal credit for the models or the assets, I only wished to utilize them to help spread the concept I created. It's not like we are making any money off these mods.
Regardless though I appologize if I upset anyone because of this, I am very grateful that you informed me of the sources for some of these models however, because I would be extremely grateful to ask permission for some more of these fantastically made models for my mod. And I remember following project revolution from the day I discovered it, they did a fantastic job working on those models for Warcraft 3, it's great to hear their work is continuing over into Starcraft 2.
0
@Zackreaver: Go
Published a new update to the mod for all the maps, essentially just fixed some bug's that I noticed, also adjusted some of the point costs.
The point cost's for Zerg and Terran are nowhere near final, some of them are copy-pasted and I was too lazy to really make them appropriate. If anyone testing the mod have any suggestions feel free to leave them here, I would like to hear what people have to say.
0
Thanks! That just saved me hours of experimenting. Intriguing that immediately when I open metalopolis that I had saved on my computer, the library was completely absent.
Well now I can actually get some playable maps up for everyone to try the mod out on.
0
Right now I'm encountering a very annoying bug, maybe someone here can help me.
Whenever I try to import my library into a blizzard map to prepare it for publishing, I delete the default trigger yet when I start up the map, all of the triggers in my library refuse to start and the default trigger THAT I DELETED still launches.
I don't seem to understand how this happens and it only occur's on certain maps. I'm sure that there is something that I changed to make it stop happening but I can't quite place my finger on it.
Does anyone know what this is so I can fix it?
0
That's why the protoss have access to the Corsair, Scout, and Arbiter in this mod. They are the missing pieces to the Protoss Air Force.
So yes you very much can, and if you feel you might be crippled early game then you can either try to setup a 1v1 turtle strat or find a 2v2 partner to give you backup.
0
If your refering to the valkyrie and corsair, I based this off another mod, the SC1vsSC2 mod. So a great kudo's to the people that made those models, now if only someone could make a devourer model we can have the whole party back.
Actually, BECAUSE the terran have the most units, they are actually the hardest to work with. The concept of terran is their versatility, being so making upgrades for them is a very hard task. Terran usually end up having the most activated abilities and tech that handles multiple situations. In the end Protoss are my favorite race as well so I felt I would be able to give them a fair level of upgrades without going overboard.
Mainly I could judge the worth of the units better because I've tried them in multiplayer myself, for the other races however I'm not as experienced so most of those are based off the video's and replay's that I've seen.
0
@Alevice: Go
Right now the game is essentially untested, the values I put in ARE mostly just ones that I created from my judgement. They are not final however, I merely have the current values in as a base to know where to start.
As to how I got the point values, I mostly just compared the unit's overall usefulness to generalized situations. Units that you absolutely need in order to survive are worth alot of points, where as units you can survive without are worth less. Generally the point values can also change if units recieve big updates as a result of Blizzard's balance updates.
Essentially, you can win 90% of games without ever making a carrier, so disabling a carrier doesn't grant that many points, upgrading one however can be expensive depending on what the carrier ends up getting. Disabling the stalker however is worth alot more points, as the unit is generally an effective bread and butter unit that can be used in almost all situations, disabling the zealot would leave you vulnerable to rushes and leave you without a unit to pump excess minerals into.
I wouldn't expect all the point values to be perfectly balanced the day I make it, starcraft 1's balance wasn't made in a day. The point is to get the concept across to the public and let extensive testing determine the proper point values.
To more directly answer your question, my method of determine a base point value is similar to how the tier list in fighting games would be made, I explore several strategies and tactics that involve the unit or tech (Multiplayer replays and videos), and see how many different strategies these items can be used against. If I see 1 particular item only used in one very specific strat, then obviously it's situation, however if I see something used in every game consistently, then it's obviously got a more general importance.
0
Added a youtube video to hopefully summarize the wall of text.
When I can compress some actual gameplay footage I'll post that too, but essentially it plays just like your general ladder game, only with additional units and certain tech that can give certain edges.
The bonus's are "in theory" designed to be subtle, in a sense the upgrades to core units such as stalkers, marines, roaches, or any others you can think of, mainly get bonus's that don't even affect their primary use.
Rather grant them an bonus in a use that they aren't normally used for, such as increased sight range on stalkers, or improved melee damage on a roach, or siege tanks that fight better in regular tank mode.
The purpose of this is rather obvious, I want to encourage unorthodox gameplay so that every game feels different. For example when you scout your opponent at the very beginning, it will become even more difficult to determine what they are getting, and this can even impact what you might see in the mid and late game.
0
CURRENTLY PLAYABLE search for "Faction Mode" to find the maps I have this mod currently up for. It's still a work in progress however so bug's are to be expected, but I feel it's time that other people get to try this mod out.
Go to channel "factionmode" for testing and mod discussion.
I would like to inform you all about the latest project I have been working on. Basically the project is a mod, which means that it can be imported into any map (Blizzard or custom made) and used to play it.
The mod's concept is simple, anyone here who has played either Age of Empires, Command and Conquer, or Rise of Nations would notice that some of those games use a single race and simply modify it statistically and either replace or add unique features such as a unique unit, tech, or ability.
The way this mod works is very similar in that concept, the mod works off of Starcraft 2's basic ladder, however instead of simply creating a few factions for the players to use and play around with. I thought it would be more interesting to use a separate concept.
Players can make their own faction, creating their own strengths, weakness's, and choosing their own unique units, tech, and abilities.
Here is a screenshot showing the User Interface for the Protoss
And heres a youtube video as well
Yes, you saw correctly, all of the Starcraft 1 units are there, this mod used the Sc1 vs Sc2 mod as a base, so all of the Starcraft 1 units for every race will be fully available, some might be slightly adjusted to make them compatible with the newer units.
The Faction design per player is setup like this, every unit and tech in the game is worth points, the point value is how vital the unit or tech is to winning a normal Ladder Game. By default all tech normally available in Starcraft 2 Ladder will be automatically enabled. Players may then choose to Disable individual Units/Tech/Abilities to gain their cost in points. These points can then be used on other areas to improve the players faction.
For example, Say a player playing as the protoss decides to shut off the Phoenix, as the phoenix is a rather situational unit it's point cost is rather low, so the points can be used on an inexpensive upgrade, such as reducing the delay time it takes for zealots to begin recharging their shields.
Now if that player were to instead disable their Stalker, they would be granted a much higher amount of points, as they effectively shut off a very important that could cost them the game. The points they are granted however, can allow them to make other units more effective and can possibly replace the stalker in it's use if used correctly.
Players that are even brave enough to shut off their detectors, or leave themselves with no tier 1 tech, are granted with special compensation's designed to give them a fighting chance, should another player be attempt to exploit their glaring weakness. Needless to say, team games will end up having a big part on this mod.
Basically the purpose of this mod is to break the staleness of Starcraft 2 Ladder. I am not attempting to claim myself better than blizzard at balancing nor do I claim myself a masterful player at ladder. I am simply just bored of seeing every ladder game consist of the same general build orders being repeated in every game. This mod is being made for fun, it will allow players to setup unusual strategies and utilize units in a different way.
This will also allow players to use Starcraft 1 units to fight against Starcraft 2 units, even though other maps and mod's have done this before, my mod attempts to better balance this combination out, but in a more unique way.
Currently a Youtube video is being uploaded to demonstrate the UI, if anyone is interested in testing this mod out please let me know, I will hold Testing Sessions regularly.
0
@Doubotis: Go
I encountered this very same issue while trying to work with my mod.
I have not 100% found the solution yet, but I noticed that the library doesn't get fully imported when the mod is set as a dependency. Sometimes doing a certain action like copying a trigger from the library will make the entire library work but othertimes it's the same issue as what your having, it just simply doesn't start up.
I'll have a look into this more closely and see if I can discover how to get libraries and mod's to better communicate with each other.
Anyone have some input on this?
0
@bongalak: Go
In the event anyone finds this thread using search, the answer is.
Uncheck the "Best Unit" flag.
0
@PIESOFTHENORTH: Go
Only method I know of how to test a mod without publishing is to Open the test map, and load the mod into it's depencies, then test the map. This however ends up resulting in more steps as whenever you make updates to the mod, you have to reload the dependency on the map or close and open the map for any change you make.
0
@Bjorne91: Go
If you still have this issue, I'd suggest going to the command card of the UNIT with the ability, and removing the requirement from the ability on the UNITS COMMAND CARD. This is an issue I came across as well, the ability has it's own requirement, if you put a requirement on the button for the units command card, and I think if you don't meet the requirement, the costs won't display.
This may be an old thread, but at least now anyone that searches for this has the answer.