Yea, you /can/ do it but you probably don't want to do it the way Blizzard has it set up. Just look at the example cliff model files in the art tools.
If you're dead set on making custom cliff models I'd suggest you just make 3d models to overlay on top of the cliffs,which blizzard has resorted to doing as well lately. Example; most of the cliffs on the left and right here are just models inlaid;
Posting an update incase someone else runs into problems. Apparently I hadn't updated the art tools/examples in a while since recently after redownloading them...wham, a lot more of the documentation + more example files are there.
@smurfbizkit: Go And for other companies releasing a paid rts inside an rts doesn't seem the best idea unless its revolutionary.
I have no idea if any of what I said could happen but it seems like it would be best-case scenario for Blizzard to become a platform for a lot of high quality new games.
Also, who says that paid arcade content will always be locked within Starcraft 2? Right now you can play arcade games without buying SC2....and hell...Heroes of the Storm is essentially a giant arcade game.
I think some of you have a misunderstanding here of what Blizzard's intentions of the paid arcade content are. Most of the time when they have mentioned it they have paired it with comparison to Xbox Live Arcade and the App Store. Initially (years ago) they also had said a REQUIREMENT of being paid arcade content would be to have mostly entirely new art. From this perspective it seems as if they want to be an alternative to Unity and Steam, a platform for retail quality indie games (and content) using the Arcade.
Right now 2 good examples of this would be Carbot and Starcraft Universe, those 2 fit perfectly within the scope of what I feel they'd easily allow to be paid content (or at least in the future have updates that are paid).
I have a friend who runs a small company making mobile games as well as small Steam games. For years he's wanted to do an RTS but no engine exists to allow for one to easily be made (I am talking rpg-maker level of ease). If suddenly the Arcade became a realistic option, he could take the reasonable sized budgets he has doing mobile games...and do a decently scope RTS. Right now there are very few classic RTSs are released, due to the lack of a (fairly) easy to use, cheap engine for people to use. If Blizzard pushed the Arcade a bit more in that direction we could easily see something on par with the JRPG boom we've seen on Steam due to rpg-maker but with RTS instead.
This isn't removing anything from the existing mod scene, this just adds in a whole new class of games. The side benefit is that if existing mods wanted to release a paid version, people could rationalize taking time off work or investing money into it (again, which wouldn't have existed anyway).
I mostly stand by my statement in the previous thread. Though I suppose now that they are planning on making actual DLC missions (based on the Nova thread), I suppose it could be possible they might contract some work.
I doubt that, they have plenty of their own designers to do official DLC missions.
Yea, that's kind of a last resort though...just due to the sheer object count it would add per map. Of all the options that one would LOOK the best at least.
How do you get new cliff textures ingame? While using the standard SC2 cliff models.
I had figured for a while that I'd just replace the filename for the textures but apparently that doesn't work. After checking around online, I realized they seem to need an m3 cliff material file. I tried that with the proper sc2 art tools, and the older m3 importer/exporter...and had no real luck.
The only thread I've seen online, was this one which doesn't cover how to do it at all (plus it replaces city textures, organic ones like the marsara one I had tried use 2 textures for the one material);
Maybe I'm missing something simple, but how exactly is this done? Our style is pretty far removed from SC2's (see below) so new cliff textures are needed.
I don't think I can provide an exact interpretation of what Fantasy is that will address every single game case and make developers feel 100% confident in their project. It was left open-ended for the reason of allowing both creators and us the freedom to consider many different games. I don't want to say something like, 'NO LASERS ALLOWED' when your game involves a rogue, a warrior, and a mage scouring ancient ruins and avoiding traps that fire 'beams of magic.'
Fantasy tends to be set in a world ruled by magic and devoid of 'high-end' technology. But to further push you in the right direction, when you think of Fantasy, think Lord of the Rings or the Warcraft universe. WoW obviously really pushes the boundaries of what is Fantasy since it has spaceships, teleporters, and other technology. But it's all set on the stage of old gods. ancient elementals, and magic that anchors it in the correct genre. You could even just go to a book store and look at every book in the Fantasy section. If your game looks anything like these things, you're on the right track.
I'm sure there are still more questions so feel free to respond here or email me directly for your specific concerns. [email protected]. /* */
I'll be emailing, but I think of the examples so far the project we've been working on is a pretty decent example of an edge case;
We have ancient gods, ancient relics, sword-using units, rampant use of magic, floating airships, sentient cartoon mascot, demons, ghosts, necromancy and illusions....however we also have Panzers, paratroops, shrink rays and Nukes. By virtually any definition of the genre 'fantasy' Geistkrieg easily falls into it...however the wording for this has us seriously confused as if it's 'fantasy enough.' It honestly feels as if we're on the verge of being punished for going for something relatively original.
Also, I should point out to people mentioning bookstore type fantasy as an example...Warcraft 3 and WoW also include; tanks, guns, airships and mechs as well. :b
Our style isn't actually that realistic though. It's a halfstep between Diablo 3's painterly style (ironically with mostly phototexture terrain textures) and Company of Heroes (which actually is nearly entirely handpainted, not phototextured despite how it looks). We'll see about Geistkrieg's assets later, right now our hands are full just getting it all ingame and working right.
The MEC2 art is a 100% no-go though. If we could've used them, we would've already on a project, and would've released something years ago. :b Isotx owns MEC2 so all that stuff is basically gone. :/
pfx, ya, let us know. Whenever we get to it, we'll probably release our pfx to those who'd want it anyway I don't think the style difference will matter with those.
I remember your CC work. Was quite impressive. I presume you will not allow anyone else to use those assets?
When you feel like getting started with particles, it would be work checking out Delphinium's thread and assets, and the assets I released. They will help you get started. I don't know what CC editors were like, but transitioning from Sins of a Solar Empire, which has the most limited particle engine of any game I've ever seen (even wc3 is leaps and bounds ahead of it), was very easy. For most realistic-ish effects, like say those in CoH, they will be trivial to make with an art team like yours behind them. Use flipbook textures and go hogwild with high fps animations to complement those great meshes.
Thanks! CNC3's particlefx editor didn't exist. EA had a proper editor, but they cut it out of the release version of the engine...leaving us with a super clunky editing numbers value method (MEC2 had poor pfx, we never could find someone good to help on it).
Thanks for the links, they'll come in handy. At the top of my list is to post up a help-wanted topic sometime soon since right now we could really use an animator or two, as well as someone on particlefx. We can do up any special models/textures needed, but someone fairly well experienced in the pfx editor would be ideal. Some of what we'll be needing to get done; old film projector like fx beam, a better lightning/tesla-like fx, more detailed blood/gib detail than sc2 used for infantry, a lot of weird Geist powers, etc etc
As for the question on releasing assets, we haven't discussed it much so I dunno. Additionally we run into the problem that, while our art looks good together...it REALLY does not mesh with SC2's style and looks pretty bad when they put next to each other.
Wou Im really impress it looks really cool! How far along are you guys in the project and also if there is a BETA coming soon?
BETA is a long way off, we do hope to start releasing Alpha versions sooner.
Code-wise the Allies are playable but need polish and balancing. The Reich need a lot more work (maybe 50% done? dunno). Art-wise I'd say we're 2/3rds done with all the models and textures.
Hey, I'm team lead on Geistkrieg (I also do much of the game design, and all of the textures). While this is the first project for Starcraft 2 we'll release, we've been modding RTS for a long long time for the 'Command and Conquer' series. Our last major project was 'Mideast Crisis 2' for CNC3 (link below);
So far I have to say that Starcraft 2's engine, while not perfect, and lacking a lot of documentation, has allowed us to do things we never could've for CNC games. Geistkrieg has been a lot of work (both art and code) but it's finally coming together.
The plan is to release a rough, public, Allies-only alpha in the near future. By rough we mean; probably no new infantry (animations are killing us atm), particlefx or sound (not going to tackle that yet). The goal is to slowly add on and iterate from there.
I've attached a couple screens here but we have more on our website (plus some lore and gameplay info);
http://tankrush.com/geistkrieg/
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Yea, you /can/ do it but you probably don't want to do it the way Blizzard has it set up. Just look at the example cliff model files in the art tools.
If you're dead set on making custom cliff models I'd suggest you just make 3d models to overlay on top of the cliffs,which blizzard has resorted to doing as well lately. Example; most of the cliffs on the left and right here are just models inlaid;
http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/starcraft-2-nova-covert-ops-mission-pack-1-review-502923-8.jpg
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@Ramboing: Go
Yea, I ran into the same problem too. :/
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Posting an update incase someone else runs into problems. Apparently I hadn't updated the art tools/examples in a while since recently after redownloading them...wham, a lot more of the documentation + more example files are there.
There are cliff examples in there now. :)
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@greythepirate: Go
Thanks! I love how much effort they've put into making better terrain textures.
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I have no idea if any of what I said could happen but it seems like it would be best-case scenario for Blizzard to become a platform for a lot of high quality new games.
Also, who says that paid arcade content will always be locked within Starcraft 2? Right now you can play arcade games without buying SC2....and hell...Heroes of the Storm is essentially a giant arcade game.
Overall I'm pretty optimistic about this.
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I think some of you have a misunderstanding here of what Blizzard's intentions of the paid arcade content are. Most of the time when they have mentioned it they have paired it with comparison to Xbox Live Arcade and the App Store. Initially (years ago) they also had said a REQUIREMENT of being paid arcade content would be to have mostly entirely new art. From this perspective it seems as if they want to be an alternative to Unity and Steam, a platform for retail quality indie games (and content) using the Arcade.
Right now 2 good examples of this would be Carbot and Starcraft Universe, those 2 fit perfectly within the scope of what I feel they'd easily allow to be paid content (or at least in the future have updates that are paid).
I have a friend who runs a small company making mobile games as well as small Steam games. For years he's wanted to do an RTS but no engine exists to allow for one to easily be made (I am talking rpg-maker level of ease). If suddenly the Arcade became a realistic option, he could take the reasonable sized budgets he has doing mobile games...and do a decently scope RTS. Right now there are very few classic RTSs are released, due to the lack of a (fairly) easy to use, cheap engine for people to use. If Blizzard pushed the Arcade a bit more in that direction we could easily see something on par with the JRPG boom we've seen on Steam due to rpg-maker but with RTS instead.
This isn't removing anything from the existing mod scene, this just adds in a whole new class of games. The side benefit is that if existing mods wanted to release a paid version, people could rationalize taking time off work or investing money into it (again, which wouldn't have existed anyway).
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I doubt that, they have plenty of their own designers to do official DLC missions.
Yea, I'd guess its for things of carbot-mod scope, or Starcraft Universe...things that feel more substantial and feel like paid content.
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@MaskedImposter: Go
Yea, that's kind of a last resort though...just due to the sheer object count it would add per map. Of all the options that one would LOOK the best at least.
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How do you get new cliff textures ingame? While using the standard SC2 cliff models.
I had figured for a while that I'd just replace the filename for the textures but apparently that doesn't work. After checking around online, I realized they seem to need an m3 cliff material file. I tried that with the proper sc2 art tools, and the older m3 importer/exporter...and had no real luck.
The only thread I've seen online, was this one which doesn't cover how to do it at all (plus it replaces city textures, organic ones like the marsara one I had tried use 2 textures for the one material);
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/artist-tavern/44176-solved-issues-with-custom-cliff-material/
Maybe I'm missing something simple, but how exactly is this done? Our style is pretty far removed from SC2's (see below) so new cliff textures are needed.
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I'll be emailing, but I think of the examples so far the project we've been working on is a pretty decent example of an edge case;
We have ancient gods, ancient relics, sword-using units, rampant use of magic, floating airships, sentient cartoon mascot, demons, ghosts, necromancy and illusions....however we also have Panzers, paratroops, shrink rays and Nukes. By virtually any definition of the genre 'fantasy' Geistkrieg easily falls into it...however the wording for this has us seriously confused as if it's 'fantasy enough.' It honestly feels as if we're on the verge of being punished for going for something relatively original.
Also, I should point out to people mentioning bookstore type fantasy as an example...Warcraft 3 and WoW also include; tanks, guns, airships and mechs as well. :b
Our site (granted, it doesn't show much of our fantastical elements yet in those screens); http://tankrush.com/geistkrieg/
We're close to a public release, and using a contest like this as an excuse to push a lot harder would be amazing.
Anyway, what do you guys think? Do we fit within their definition of fantasy?
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@IskatuMesk: Go
Our style isn't actually that realistic though. It's a halfstep between Diablo 3's painterly style (ironically with mostly phototexture terrain textures) and Company of Heroes (which actually is nearly entirely handpainted, not phototextured despite how it looks). We'll see about Geistkrieg's assets later, right now our hands are full just getting it all ingame and working right.
The MEC2 art is a 100% no-go though. If we could've used them, we would've already on a project, and would've released something years ago. :b Isotx owns MEC2 so all that stuff is basically gone. :/
pfx, ya, let us know. Whenever we get to it, we'll probably release our pfx to those who'd want it anyway I don't think the style difference will matter with those.
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Thanks! CNC3's particlefx editor didn't exist. EA had a proper editor, but they cut it out of the release version of the engine...leaving us with a super clunky editing numbers value method (MEC2 had poor pfx, we never could find someone good to help on it).
Thanks for the links, they'll come in handy. At the top of my list is to post up a help-wanted topic sometime soon since right now we could really use an animator or two, as well as someone on particlefx. We can do up any special models/textures needed, but someone fairly well experienced in the pfx editor would be ideal. Some of what we'll be needing to get done; old film projector like fx beam, a better lightning/tesla-like fx, more detailed blood/gib detail than sc2 used for infantry, a lot of weird Geist powers, etc etc
As for the question on releasing assets, we haven't discussed it much so I dunno. Additionally we run into the problem that, while our art looks good together...it REALLY does not mesh with SC2's style and looks pretty bad when they put next to each other.
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@TheUltragon: Go
We're trying to get it out ASAP, hopefully before the end of the summer.
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BETA is a long way off, we do hope to start releasing Alpha versions sooner.
Code-wise the Allies are playable but need polish and balancing. The Reich need a lot more work (maybe 50% done? dunno). Art-wise I'd say we're 2/3rds done with all the models and textures.
Yea, those are all in-engine screens.
Hah, I'm surprised anyone remembers MEC1, that was a long long time ago (on it I mostly just did all the unit textures).
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Hey, I'm team lead on Geistkrieg (I also do much of the game design, and all of the textures). While this is the first project for Starcraft 2 we'll release, we've been modding RTS for a long long time for the 'Command and Conquer' series. Our last major project was 'Mideast Crisis 2' for CNC3 (link below);
http://www.moddb.com/mods/mideast-crisis-2
So far I have to say that Starcraft 2's engine, while not perfect, and lacking a lot of documentation, has allowed us to do things we never could've for CNC games. Geistkrieg has been a lot of work (both art and code) but it's finally coming together.
The plan is to release a rough, public, Allies-only alpha in the near future. By rough we mean; probably no new infantry (animations are killing us atm), particlefx or sound (not going to tackle that yet). The goal is to slowly add on and iterate from there.
I've attached a couple screens here but we have more on our website (plus some lore and gameplay info); http://tankrush.com/geistkrieg/
and for some reason if the site breaks, the screens are also on our facebook; https://www.facebook.com/pages/Geistkrieg/1126019474090988