Yes, I did not think about Voidstride, which was probably my error when proposing changes. Since I don't have yet access to it, well... I completly forgot i'd be able to have it. And yes, I totally agree with the fact that DT shouldn't get any more aoe. I always liked the monotarget potency that is given to any class that's designed about being stealthy. Giving them too much multi target abilities would clearly break the point of such classes.
I'm looking foreward to try out the Shadowstride change.
I understand PvP isn't a priority. Even more because, I think it would be hard to balance classes for both pvp and pve, and I only tried pvp by curiousity. And this clearly isn't the point of this map. But it's a fun addition.
Also, I've seen that the map was updated before you post this. Any chance we can get full ( or only the most important things for players ) changelog? Thanks in advance.
I'd say I would agree with the mentionned change for Shadowstride. This is kinda what I was thinking about to allow dts to strike when they wants to.
About Blink Strike, yes, I don't find it useless at all too. It's even really useful, like you say, to quickly get in battle, and deal a nice amount of damage.
Being able to close any group as they are comming is nice, especially when you're the only one who can tank in the group ( and solo wise too ), thus saving you some time each wave.
However, what I said is that, while leveling, I did not find useful to take more than one point in it, because, dps-wise, it was clearly more important to put in crippling strike, and get more level in others ability.
After all, let's look at it:
-Shadowstride deals aoe-based damage, which is probably what is most needed for the whole game ( exept bosses, with the exeption of some who spawn adds ), so you have to level it really more quickly than blink strike. Both are 20-second cooldown, so having to choose between more aoe dps and more monotarget dps ( which is already nice with crippling strike, which is 10 sec-cooldown, plus assassin's mark ), the choice is quickly done, and in favor of shadowstride.
-Reavers's Scythe is mandatory to level if you want to be able to tank at least one wave out two ( because most of the time, if you use it on one wave, it will be on cooldown for the next one ). If you already leveled a DT, you'd see that you really need to level this ASAP, else you won't be able to tank any wave ( which is kinda... Weird for a melee )... But if you got a tank friend, then you don't need it, but hey, i'm playing with random dudes, and i mostly find myself tanking.
-Crippling Strike clearly outclasses Blink in terms of dps, like i said earlier, so why take one more level in blink when you can get more dps and more group utility ( ennemy dps decrease, which means, more tanking ) out this? Blink is 10 sec cooldown, and Crippling Strike is 5 seconds cooldown, while both have exact same damage per rank, thus making Crippling strike 100% more efficient than blink dps wise.
-Soul Harvest is mandatory to level if you want to be able to use your abilities off-cooldown, which is mandatory for either tanking or dpsing. It's also a guarenteed kill everytime it's off cooldown if you level it as the tiers goes on. So you have to upgrade it probably right after getting Reaver's Scythe.
So, what i'm pointing out with this, is the there's nothing appealing to take Blink Strike past level 1. Making it more uselful as you level it would probably make it more worth it, but for now, I didn't level it more than I was forced to. Things like less cooldown ( -1 sec cooldown per rank, for example ), or more utility ( aforementioned synergy with Shadowstride in my other post ) would clearly make it worth it.
I'm not saying death mark isn't useful, it clearly is more dps if you can hit your target more than once. But most of the time, you won't hit targets more than two or three times, so this doesn't change anything ( at least, at my level ), and is CLEARLY overpowered on bosses, since the whole group benefits from it. So yeah, it's too potent. That's why i recommendated to change it to something else, or re-balance it. Even more because it stacks with each mark from each DT if i'm correct, making multiple DT in one group just rape bosses.
Also, i thought of an addition to Reaver's Scythe. Since DT's worst dps is when comfronted to multi target dps ( exept when you can place a nice Shadowstride ), why not make RS make the DT strike more opponents while active, but still only gets healed per strike, not per target hit, which wouldn't change anything healing-wise.
I don't think 1 more opponent struck per ability level would be balanced, 5 more opponent struck is clearly too much. But making it like level 1-3: 1 more opponent, level 4-5: 2 more opponents would be nice. Do you think it would be ok?
I'll continue making feedbacks as I level up my DT, so you can have a player's experience to make eventual changes.
Also, just noticed that you can oneshot anyone in the pvp arena with soul harvest. I don't think that was intended. Just disable this ability in the pvp arena, or make it not work vs players would even this out.
I have to say i'm very impressed by this map. I only played it a couple hours and I really like the gameplay, and with so much amount of work, this map really doesn't feel like a beta-stage one. Cheers to the devs.
So, I'm posting this to submit some feedback about the Dark Templar, which is the only class I played for now.
First, a bit about myself, I played a lot of RPGs, and I always liked any class that was sneaky, so, it mean rogues, scouts, thiefs, assassins, ... Anything among those lines.
So this is why i'm playing the Dark Templar. I'm only level 13 actualy.
Now, i'll list off abilites, and give my two cents about each, so you know how I'm feeling about these, and maybe agree with some changes. I'm not saying you MUST change them like i'm saying, but again, it's only my cents, and i'm giving this post as a player feedback.
1. Shadowstride
I really like the way this ability work, exept that you really can't use it to go in the middle of a wave and strike everything at once, because you can't force your way in the middle of the wave in most cases. You can only strike of the edge of waves, which greatly reduces the impact of this ability, which isn't even doing as much damage as any caster's Aoe-spell.
A fix to this would be to allow the dark templar to go through all units while stealth is active ( either by making the dark templar able to "push" units in his way, or to simply go through them ( like drones do when on the same mineral line ).
Also, it is actualy kinda hard to make the dark templar attack an ennemy while he is stealthed. I understand why you force the Dark Templar's autoattack off while stealthed, because people can use it defensively, and I sometimes do use it that way, but even using A+Click doesn't make the DT attack the nearest ennemy.
If you want to attack one precise ennemy ( because this is the only way to make the AoE-damage of this ability ), it is very hard when there's a lot of small-sized units that constently moves towards you nearest ally ( because, after all, you're stealthed, so ennemies completly ignores you ). Because this flow of units constently move, the unit you wanted to attack will probably get body-blocked a second later, thus making the use of this ability very hard under some circunstances.
2. Reaver's Scythe
Ok ability to hold some health while attacking ennemies. But I really feel that this ability should have another utility. I don't have any idea atm of what could be added to it, but I think it should do a little more than just keeping you alive when you attack.
3. Blink Strike
I really like this, because it feels assassin-like.
However, I drop the most point out of it in favor of Crippling Slash, because Crippling Slash's cooldown is way faster, and deals the same damage. So Dps-wise, Crippling Slash is better, plus it reduces ennemy's dps. However, I have spent the minimal points in Blink Strike because I wanted it to gain some mobility. But this is the last ability I level up, ( only when i'm forced to ).
Also, there could be a synergy with Shadowstride. Like I said about Shadowstride, the problem is that you can't strike exactly where you want in a big small-sized ennemy wave. It would be really nice if Blink Strike could trigger Shadowstride when you use it while stealthed, which, used that way, would also deal Blink Strike's damage as aoe damage, at the same range of Shadowstride.
This way, Blink Strike wouldn't feel like useless to put points in, since it could be used for AoE, thus making the player having to choose between putting points in Blink Strike ( more aoe damage ), or Crippling Strike ( more monotarget dps ). However, if you do this, reduce Blink Strike damage if used that way ( Because, let's face it, it would clearly be overpowered ). Making it dealing as much damage as Shadowstride would be ideal, so players still have to put points in Shadowstride AND Blink Strike.
4. Crippling Strike
Nice ability. I don't see any tweak we could do there.
5. Voidstride
Didn't use it for now, since I don't have the level.
However, this really feels too much Shadowstride-like for me. But I don't have any idea about changing it. So i'll say it's ok for now.
6. Death Mark
I don't think this is really useful, but on bosses, and is probably overpowered on bosses. But I don't have any idea of changing it. But it definetly should be changed to something else.
About items, I don't see the point of having two book with the same price/level. Making the 20% one cost like 12 minerals could help to have a difference between the two I think.
Since this is only beta, then i'll say "Keep up the good work". This map clearly deserves to be on front page.
See you.
0
@Nashadun: Go
Yes, I did not think about Voidstride, which was probably my error when proposing changes. Since I don't have yet access to it, well... I completly forgot i'd be able to have it. And yes, I totally agree with the fact that DT shouldn't get any more aoe. I always liked the monotarget potency that is given to any class that's designed about being stealthy. Giving them too much multi target abilities would clearly break the point of such classes.
I'm looking foreward to try out the Shadowstride change.
I understand PvP isn't a priority. Even more because, I think it would be hard to balance classes for both pvp and pve, and I only tried pvp by curiousity. And this clearly isn't the point of this map. But it's a fun addition.
Also, I've seen that the map was updated before you post this. Any chance we can get full ( or only the most important things for players ) changelog? Thanks in advance.
Regards.
0
@Nashadun: Go
I'd say I would agree with the mentionned change for Shadowstride. This is kinda what I was thinking about to allow dts to strike when they wants to.
About Blink Strike, yes, I don't find it useless at all too. It's even really useful, like you say, to quickly get in battle, and deal a nice amount of damage. Being able to close any group as they are comming is nice, especially when you're the only one who can tank in the group ( and solo wise too ), thus saving you some time each wave. However, what I said is that, while leveling, I did not find useful to take more than one point in it, because, dps-wise, it was clearly more important to put in crippling strike, and get more level in others ability.
After all, let's look at it:
-Shadowstride deals aoe-based damage, which is probably what is most needed for the whole game ( exept bosses, with the exeption of some who spawn adds ), so you have to level it really more quickly than blink strike. Both are 20-second cooldown, so having to choose between more aoe dps and more monotarget dps ( which is already nice with crippling strike, which is 10 sec-cooldown, plus assassin's mark ), the choice is quickly done, and in favor of shadowstride.
-Reavers's Scythe is mandatory to level if you want to be able to tank at least one wave out two ( because most of the time, if you use it on one wave, it will be on cooldown for the next one ). If you already leveled a DT, you'd see that you really need to level this ASAP, else you won't be able to tank any wave ( which is kinda... Weird for a melee )... But if you got a tank friend, then you don't need it, but hey, i'm playing with random dudes, and i mostly find myself tanking.
-Crippling Strike clearly outclasses Blink in terms of dps, like i said earlier, so why take one more level in blink when you can get more dps and more group utility ( ennemy dps decrease, which means, more tanking ) out this? Blink is 10 sec cooldown, and Crippling Strike is 5 seconds cooldown, while both have exact same damage per rank, thus making Crippling strike 100% more efficient than blink dps wise.
-Soul Harvest is mandatory to level if you want to be able to use your abilities off-cooldown, which is mandatory for either tanking or dpsing. It's also a guarenteed kill everytime it's off cooldown if you level it as the tiers goes on. So you have to upgrade it probably right after getting Reaver's Scythe.
So, what i'm pointing out with this, is the there's nothing appealing to take Blink Strike past level 1. Making it more uselful as you level it would probably make it more worth it, but for now, I didn't level it more than I was forced to. Things like less cooldown ( -1 sec cooldown per rank, for example ), or more utility ( aforementioned synergy with Shadowstride in my other post ) would clearly make it worth it.
I'm not saying death mark isn't useful, it clearly is more dps if you can hit your target more than once. But most of the time, you won't hit targets more than two or three times, so this doesn't change anything ( at least, at my level ), and is CLEARLY overpowered on bosses, since the whole group benefits from it. So yeah, it's too potent. That's why i recommendated to change it to something else, or re-balance it. Even more because it stacks with each mark from each DT if i'm correct, making multiple DT in one group just rape bosses.
Also, i thought of an addition to Reaver's Scythe. Since DT's worst dps is when comfronted to multi target dps ( exept when you can place a nice Shadowstride ), why not make RS make the DT strike more opponents while active, but still only gets healed per strike, not per target hit, which wouldn't change anything healing-wise. I don't think 1 more opponent struck per ability level would be balanced, 5 more opponent struck is clearly too much. But making it like level 1-3: 1 more opponent, level 4-5: 2 more opponents would be nice. Do you think it would be ok?
I'll continue making feedbacks as I level up my DT, so you can have a player's experience to make eventual changes.
Also, just noticed that you can oneshot anyone in the pvp arena with soul harvest. I don't think that was intended. Just disable this ability in the pvp arena, or make it not work vs players would even this out.
Regards. Destrid.
0
Hello,
I have to say i'm very impressed by this map. I only played it a couple hours and I really like the gameplay, and with so much amount of work, this map really doesn't feel like a beta-stage one. Cheers to the devs.
So, I'm posting this to submit some feedback about the Dark Templar, which is the only class I played for now.
First, a bit about myself, I played a lot of RPGs, and I always liked any class that was sneaky, so, it mean rogues, scouts, thiefs, assassins, ... Anything among those lines. So this is why i'm playing the Dark Templar. I'm only level 13 actualy.
Now, i'll list off abilites, and give my two cents about each, so you know how I'm feeling about these, and maybe agree with some changes. I'm not saying you MUST change them like i'm saying, but again, it's only my cents, and i'm giving this post as a player feedback.
1. Shadowstride
I really like the way this ability work, exept that you really can't use it to go in the middle of a wave and strike everything at once, because you can't force your way in the middle of the wave in most cases. You can only strike of the edge of waves, which greatly reduces the impact of this ability, which isn't even doing as much damage as any caster's Aoe-spell.
A fix to this would be to allow the dark templar to go through all units while stealth is active ( either by making the dark templar able to "push" units in his way, or to simply go through them ( like drones do when on the same mineral line ).
Also, it is actualy kinda hard to make the dark templar attack an ennemy while he is stealthed. I understand why you force the Dark Templar's autoattack off while stealthed, because people can use it defensively, and I sometimes do use it that way, but even using A+Click doesn't make the DT attack the nearest ennemy. If you want to attack one precise ennemy ( because this is the only way to make the AoE-damage of this ability ), it is very hard when there's a lot of small-sized units that constently moves towards you nearest ally ( because, after all, you're stealthed, so ennemies completly ignores you ). Because this flow of units constently move, the unit you wanted to attack will probably get body-blocked a second later, thus making the use of this ability very hard under some circunstances.
2. Reaver's Scythe
Ok ability to hold some health while attacking ennemies. But I really feel that this ability should have another utility. I don't have any idea atm of what could be added to it, but I think it should do a little more than just keeping you alive when you attack.
3. Blink Strike
I really like this, because it feels assassin-like.
However, I drop the most point out of it in favor of Crippling Slash, because Crippling Slash's cooldown is way faster, and deals the same damage. So Dps-wise, Crippling Slash is better, plus it reduces ennemy's dps. However, I have spent the minimal points in Blink Strike because I wanted it to gain some mobility. But this is the last ability I level up, ( only when i'm forced to ).
Also, there could be a synergy with Shadowstride. Like I said about Shadowstride, the problem is that you can't strike exactly where you want in a big small-sized ennemy wave. It would be really nice if Blink Strike could trigger Shadowstride when you use it while stealthed, which, used that way, would also deal Blink Strike's damage as aoe damage, at the same range of Shadowstride.
This way, Blink Strike wouldn't feel like useless to put points in, since it could be used for AoE, thus making the player having to choose between putting points in Blink Strike ( more aoe damage ), or Crippling Strike ( more monotarget dps ). However, if you do this, reduce Blink Strike damage if used that way ( Because, let's face it, it would clearly be overpowered ). Making it dealing as much damage as Shadowstride would be ideal, so players still have to put points in Shadowstride AND Blink Strike.
4. Crippling Strike
Nice ability. I don't see any tweak we could do there.
5. Voidstride
Didn't use it for now, since I don't have the level.
However, this really feels too much Shadowstride-like for me. But I don't have any idea about changing it. So i'll say it's ok for now.
6. Death Mark
I don't think this is really useful, but on bosses, and is probably overpowered on bosses. But I don't have any idea of changing it. But it definetly should be changed to something else.
About items, I don't see the point of having two book with the same price/level. Making the 20% one cost like 12 minerals could help to have a difference between the two I think.
Since this is only beta, then i'll say "Keep up the good work". This map clearly deserves to be on front page. See you.
-Destrid.584