Hey everyone !
I have this interesting idea that I've have been working on right now.
It's a micro less SC2, so the standard melee game but with a lot of automatisms to make it less APM needy.
However, I started it using mainly triggers (I suck at data editing :p), and right now it appears to require an impressive working time.
So I have some questions before I invest more development time on it:
- Has it already been done?
No point in overdoing it if it's already around.
- Is it a good idea?
I personally think it is, it can help new players get a feel of the game strategy, discovering "what to do" first instead of focussing on "how to do", and it can lead to casual fun and relaxed games.
- If the above is yes (good idea), can you help me listing what to automatize? I'm mainly a zerg player, and I must have forgotten lots of thing for the other races.
First List of what would be in:
- Starting game: Send workers on minerals automatically and start first drone/SCV/probe production
- new attack move for every ranged units: Alternatively attack and move according to the fire rate.
- Refinery/Extractor/Assimilator can call 3 drones to harvest.
- Building menu available from everywhere, and will call up available/nearest worker to build the selected item.
- building group now add buildings of the same kind to the current group upon completion.
-
Zerg:
- Queen auto-larving
- Creep tumors rallying (automatically spawn creeps tumors up until the rallied point)
- Every overlord generates creep as soon as the lair tech is up
-
Terran:
- Tank "frog leap" specific attack (from on place in siege mode to another)
-
Protoss:
- Pylons gets the build menu once warpgate tech is done. it will build all units in the area of the selected pylons and have a rally system
-
I've worked on the Starting game right now and some part (more or less successfully) of the zerg gameplay !
-Autocast for the production of any unit (should only order building of unit as soon as prvious unit is ready, not queue up the queues. much like interceptors).
I can mostly think of stuff that sound ok for specific situations, but not good for others. sometimes you want to have that control.
Like auto-retreat of injured units. Auto-psi-storm (make battle automatic altogether? Just have player select where he wants his units?)
At first I thought it would be cool because it would lead to a more build oriented game like build-up-strategy-games (like Settlers 7 or Anno).
The more I think about it the more I beliebe it will take the learning of the game into a wrong direction. SC2 IS a micro-intensive game, it was designed as such in every bit of fiber in it. Taking out that micro will change the game a lot. Newbies should learn to play it as it is.
I think there are others ways to improve newbie-friendliness:
1) Increase HP/Decrease dmg of all units, so the fights will last longer and you have more time to micro efficiently.
2) have a matrix-mode that can be activated every xx minutes xx times by any player. This will slow down the game for every player giving time to react.
3) (my favorite) add Help Texts, Tips, Infos, Transmissions etc. that react to the actions and playstyle of the player. These Texts help the player by letting him know what he can achieve with a unit/upgrade he has just finished.
eg: Player just built a Sentry. Help text for Sentry appears at bottom right corner. Player can click on it and it will read things such as 'The Sentry can block ramps with Force Fields to prevent enemy players from entering one'S base
Micro can be very situational. Scripted construction, harvesting, research would be a good direction to go, leaving players the micro side of the game.
An engine that could analyze the situation of the entire map and so decide what micro to do and where can be very difficult, imo. But never impossible.
This could lead to better AIs though, should this project continue development all throughout.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Whatever you do, wholeheartedly, moment by heartfelt moment, becomes a tool for the expression of your very soul.
-Autocast for the production of any unit (should only order building of unit as soon as prvious unit is ready, not queue up the queues. much like interceptors).
I think the aim of this mod would not be to remove any control a player have, but either to add or ease the control he already has.
So everything that falls into the category "I would have done that anyway, but I spent 5 seconds doing it manually" is something that can be listed here.
In this respect, auto-casting should only be applied to mechanisms that would be done regardless of situations.
Queen - Spawn larvae is a good example for this, as there is no way you want to stop casting that spell (apart from very specific games where you want to have some energy for heals).
And so, as to not remove any control from players, auto-casting for unit production is not something that should be considered here: a player should always be able to decide what and when to build as you hint in your post.
2) have a matrix-mode that can be activated every xx minutes xx times by any player. This will slow down the game for every player giving time to react.
I love the bullet time idea, and this does fit in here perfectly. It does permit oneself to take time and ponder about what to do, instead of watching in stupor, just thinking "Oh damn, a fight is happening. It is a big fight. Troops are dying. Seems I have nothing left.".
for the 1/, I'm not convinced and the 3/ would be nice but not a priority in my opinion, as it can be done with a friend coaching .
Micro can be very situational. Scripted construction, harvesting, research would be a good direction to go, leaving players the micro side of the game.
That's almost what I had in mind!
My guess is it would be better to learn SC2 ( and even play to some extent!) with an eased start (Workers sent automatically, menu for building available everywhere, etc..). Because once in a standard melee game, new players can go : "So I know I have to do that, I've seen it work, this little dude goes there and build up stuff, let's try it". And instead of guessing what is about to happen, they just know the flow of the game.
So my plans right now are to somewhat limit the development of this project to a minimum (start/production easing/Bullet Time), letting aside some of the main work on data and make a first public map and see what results it comes up with. However I do not guarantee it will be finished fast :D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Hey everyone ! I have this interesting idea that I've have been working on right now.
It's a micro less SC2, so the standard melee game but with a lot of automatisms to make it less APM needy.
However, I started it using mainly triggers (I suck at data editing :p), and right now it appears to require an impressive working time.
So I have some questions before I invest more development time on it:
- Has it already been done?
No point in overdoing it if it's already around.
- Is it a good idea?
I personally think it is, it can help new players get a feel of the game strategy, discovering "what to do" first instead of focussing on "how to do", and it can lead to casual fun and relaxed games.
- If the above is yes (good idea), can you help me listing what to automatize? I'm mainly a zerg player, and I must have forgotten lots of thing for the other races.
First List of what would be in:
- Starting game: Send workers on minerals automatically and start first drone/SCV/probe production
- new attack move for every ranged units: Alternatively attack and move according to the fire rate.
- Refinery/Extractor/Assimilator can call 3 drones to harvest.
- Building menu available from everywhere, and will call up available/nearest worker to build the selected item.
- building group now add buildings of the same kind to the current group upon completion.
-
Zerg:
- Queen auto-larving
- Creep tumors rallying (automatically spawn creeps tumors up until the rallied point)
- Every overlord generates creep as soon as the lair tech is up
-
Terran:
- Tank "frog leap" specific attack (from on place in siege mode to another)
-
Protoss:
- Pylons gets the build menu once warpgate tech is done. it will build all units in the area of the selected pylons and have a rally system
-
I've worked on the Starting game right now and some part (more or less successfully) of the zerg gameplay !
-Autocast for the production of any unit (should only order building of unit as soon as prvious unit is ready, not queue up the queues. much like interceptors).
I can mostly think of stuff that sound ok for specific situations, but not good for others. sometimes you want to have that control. Like auto-retreat of injured units. Auto-psi-storm (make battle automatic altogether? Just have player select where he wants his units?)
At first I thought it would be cool because it would lead to a more build oriented game like build-up-strategy-games (like Settlers 7 or Anno). The more I think about it the more I beliebe it will take the learning of the game into a wrong direction. SC2 IS a micro-intensive game, it was designed as such in every bit of fiber in it. Taking out that micro will change the game a lot. Newbies should learn to play it as it is.
I think there are others ways to improve newbie-friendliness: 1) Increase HP/Decrease dmg of all units, so the fights will last longer and you have more time to micro efficiently. 2) have a matrix-mode that can be activated every xx minutes xx times by any player. This will slow down the game for every player giving time to react. 3) (my favorite) add Help Texts, Tips, Infos, Transmissions etc. that react to the actions and playstyle of the player. These Texts help the player by letting him know what he can achieve with a unit/upgrade he has just finished.
eg: Player just built a Sentry. Help text for Sentry appears at bottom right corner. Player can click on it and it will read things such as 'The Sentry can block ramps with Force Fields to prevent enemy players from entering one'S base
and so on
Micro can be very situational. Scripted construction, harvesting, research would be a good direction to go, leaving players the micro side of the game.
An engine that could analyze the situation of the entire map and so decide what micro to do and where can be very difficult, imo. But never impossible.
This could lead to better AIs though, should this project continue development all throughout.
Whatever you do, wholeheartedly, moment by heartfelt moment, becomes a tool for the expression of your very soul.
Hey, thanks for replying guys.
I think the aim of this mod would not be to remove any control a player have, but either to add or ease the control he already has.
So everything that falls into the category "I would have done that anyway, but I spent 5 seconds doing it manually" is something that can be listed here.
In this respect, auto-casting should only be applied to mechanisms that would be done regardless of situations. Queen - Spawn larvae is a good example for this, as there is no way you want to stop casting that spell (apart from very specific games where you want to have some energy for heals).
And so, as to not remove any control from players, auto-casting for unit production is not something that should be considered here: a player should always be able to decide what and when to build as you hint in your post.
I love the bullet time idea, and this does fit in here perfectly. It does permit oneself to take time and ponder about what to do, instead of watching in stupor, just thinking "Oh damn, a fight is happening. It is a big fight. Troops are dying. Seems I have nothing left.".
for the 1/, I'm not convinced and the 3/ would be nice but not a priority in my opinion, as it can be done with a friend coaching .
@GnaReffotsirk: Go
That's almost what I had in mind!
My guess is it would be better to learn SC2 ( and even play to some extent!) with an eased start (Workers sent automatically, menu for building available everywhere, etc..). Because once in a standard melee game, new players can go : "So I know I have to do that, I've seen it work, this little dude goes there and build up stuff, let's try it". And instead of guessing what is about to happen, they just know the flow of the game.
So my plans right now are to somewhat limit the development of this project to a minimum (start/production easing/Bullet Time), letting aside some of the main work on data and make a first public map and see what results it comes up with. However I do not guarantee it will be finished fast :D