Hey guys so i recently found an illegal way to play HotS alpha build tutorial and AI matches. Basically just accidently found on one torrent tracker and couldn't resist :> (Don't hate me for that). So by playing in this early unfinished version and watching matches on youtube HotS channel i'm trying to figure out some points of very biased personal likes and dislikes and want to discuss this with another MOBA players
So i've been veeeeery dedicated WC3 dota player for over 10-11 years (started with version 6.12b) and i easily can talk about myself as of highskill-level guy despite i didn't go into cyber-sport scene (cuz of study and work). Well you might probably think that any MOBA player think of himself like that and you'll have some point. Anyway i was sooo tempting when blizzard announce it's own DotA, it just blowed my mind, cuz you know this Valve dota has just so different feeling in gameplay that i'll never get used to it. Besides i think the blizzard art and engine mechanics are two main factors which made dota 1 so fun cool and great. Ya know when i first launched dota 2 i thought my eyes will just melt out cuz this high res models was soo ugliesh and crap even in comparison with old chunky wc3 models. The wc3 models just got a style.
So when i saw this first announcement on blizzcon about blizzard-dota map for starcraft 2 i knew that this will be my next love, despite there were lots of concerns about gameplay descisions. You know the map and even heroes was less detailed than in HotS right now (i rly loved sylvanas and muradin/marauder concepts they showed during art panel) and map was not so visualy overwhelmed like it is now in HotS. So i'm personaly think that minimalistic approach in visualisation is a key for this genre cuz every pro player prefers the picture where you can super-clearly see whats going on to make right descisions in a matter of seconds. This is what i (and lot's of other dedicated dota players) rly expect from great moba game - to give me the possibility to play "by-beauty", leaving tons of corpses behind and seeing "O_O" smiles in a chat :>. Well that is hardcore dota everyone loves (who playing dota 1).
Regarding to what i've seeing in HotS live matches:
The actions of heroes on a lane looks like rat race. There is no clear ganks, players just spamm themselfs with some abilities (which mostly are skillshots and missing gameplay depths badly) that dealing non-crucial damage, and then just back off. No chance to kill hero behind the lane gate looks rly dumb (synonym for casual in moba genre) again limiting pro players which feels when they can take down hero under the tower while absorbing damage from it (thats the fun factor too).
About art. As i already mention my biased opinion is that visual style is a little bit overwhelmed right now. Putting the WOW-level-of-detail models
in top-down strategy i think is overkill. For example look at Tyrand. It's almost 100% wow-style character with detailed armor. But from far distance it looks not so good, cuz this details got lost, (look attached images) and the only matters from far view is shes stance and some significant appearance elements like unique shoulders (which should be much larger and got unique shape style not just texture), hair style or unique and over-larged Bow.
Another story is jumpy walk animations, which making everyone so kiddish, even Arthas, i think they could make this anmation more smoother/calm and epic. For example when i see Arthas model he rly looks like a heavy-weighted heroic son of a b*tch. I rly want to feel his weight in his walk animation and sword swings instead jumpy dumbass. However for the Muradin jumpy looks just great, he's kind of funny character and i rly love everything about it in HotS, as it presented in current state of a game.
well one of the most amazing stuff i found is this adorable little piggies :> they sooo cuuteee! (img attached)
So yep, tell me guys your thoughts and let's have some discuss :)
@abvdzh: Go I agree on the hero models. Some of them are obviously designed in WOW style and they don't fit a MOBA or RTS game camera. They would be good for cutscenes, just like in that Tychus video they just released, but not for gameplay.
I can't say much about game mechanics because I'm not a MOBA player. Maybe I'll have more to say when they release the open beta.
And those are cute pigs. I hope we will be able to use a HotStorm dependency in SC2. Ohhh and maybe a pig hero!
Just read about the hero selection system, seems awfully familiar to the one from LoL (random pool rotation, buy heroes you want to permanently unlock 'em). Shame, was hoping for "Select anyone you want, anytime you want", like DotA. :X
@StealthToast: Go But it seems players will be able to expand that selection pretty fast. What got me worried is that without a team, players will select a hero and go blindly find a match with no knowledge of what the rest of the team picked. Someone correct me here if I got it wrong.
@StealthToast: Go But it seems players will be able to expand that selection pretty fast. What got me worried is that without a team, players will select a hero and go blindly find a match with no knowledge of what the rest of the team picked. Someone correct me here if I got it wrong.
Yeah, but I think the heroes that they're making can go with eachother easily. The role selection begins at talents I think.
@Necromoni: Go Well, I saw MOBA players complaining about it. What if the team gets 5 Abathurs? It is simply impossible to play like that. The whole genre is built over the ideas a good team has a good arrangement of roles.
@Necromoni: Go Well, I saw MOBA players complaining about it. What if the team gets 5 Abathurs? It is simply impossible to play like that. The whole genre is built over the ideas a good team has a good arrangement of roles.
Talents are not enough to change roles that much.
The matchmaking system wont put 5 abathurs together -_-, not even 2
I'm pretty sure they've made it so that the system won't put the same hero more than once in a match, although it'd be lulzy (and gruelling) seeing 10 Abathurs duke it out. :P
Also, speaking of talents, they kinda remind me of passives/runes from D3, some of them at least. They don't look all that game-changing though.
I've found it really depends on the hero. Understand that the talents simply change how your existing skills either work, or improve them. Consequently, yes, some heroes are pretty narrow. On the other hand, some heroes wildly vary based on the talents you take. I would say Arthas, Abathur and Zagara are among the best. Arthas can be played as a super tank, or he can go a focused burst dps (Envenom, Deaths Embrace, Sindragosa, Double Frostmourne skill). Zagara can pick hydra stuff for more dps, or roach/lings for push, or creep for map control. Abathur.... is Abathur, he can do damm near anything.
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Hey guys so i recently found an illegal way to play HotS alpha build tutorial and AI matches. Basically just accidently found on one torrent tracker and couldn't resist :> (Don't hate me for that). So by playing in this early unfinished version and watching matches on youtube HotS channel i'm trying to figure out some points of very biased personal likes and dislikes and want to discuss this with another MOBA players
So i've been veeeeery dedicated WC3 dota player for over 10-11 years (started with version 6.12b) and i easily can talk about myself as of highskill-level guy despite i didn't go into cyber-sport scene (cuz of study and work). Well you might probably think that any MOBA player think of himself like that and you'll have some point. Anyway i was sooo tempting when blizzard announce it's own DotA, it just blowed my mind, cuz you know this Valve dota has just so different feeling in gameplay that i'll never get used to it. Besides i think the blizzard art and engine mechanics are two main factors which made dota 1 so fun cool and great. Ya know when i first launched dota 2 i thought my eyes will just melt out cuz this high res models was soo ugliesh and crap even in comparison with old chunky wc3 models. The wc3 models just got a style.
So when i saw this first announcement on blizzcon about blizzard-dota map for starcraft 2 i knew that this will be my next love, despite there were lots of concerns about gameplay descisions. You know the map and even heroes was less detailed than in HotS right now (i rly loved sylvanas and muradin/marauder concepts they showed during art panel) and map was not so visualy overwhelmed like it is now in HotS. So i'm personaly think that minimalistic approach in visualisation is a key for this genre cuz every pro player prefers the picture where you can super-clearly see whats going on to make right descisions in a matter of seconds. This is what i (and lot's of other dedicated dota players) rly expect from great moba game - to give me the possibility to play "by-beauty", leaving tons of corpses behind and seeing "O_O" smiles in a chat :>. Well that is hardcore dota everyone loves (who playing dota 1).
Regarding to what i've seeing in HotS live matches: The actions of heroes on a lane looks like rat race. There is no clear ganks, players just spamm themselfs with some abilities (which mostly are skillshots and missing gameplay depths badly) that dealing non-crucial damage, and then just back off. No chance to kill hero behind the lane gate looks rly dumb (synonym for casual in moba genre) again limiting pro players which feels when they can take down hero under the tower while absorbing damage from it (thats the fun factor too).
About art. As i already mention my biased opinion is that visual style is a little bit overwhelmed right now. Putting the WOW-level-of-detail models in top-down strategy i think is overkill. For example look at Tyrand. It's almost 100% wow-style character with detailed armor. But from far distance it looks not so good, cuz this details got lost, (look attached images) and the only matters from far view is shes stance and some significant appearance elements like unique shoulders (which should be much larger and got unique shape style not just texture), hair style or unique and over-larged Bow.
Another story is jumpy walk animations, which making everyone so kiddish, even Arthas, i think they could make this anmation more smoother/calm and epic. For example when i see Arthas model he rly looks like a heavy-weighted heroic son of a b*tch. I rly want to feel his weight in his walk animation and sword swings instead jumpy dumbass. However for the Muradin jumpy looks just great, he's kind of funny character and i rly love everything about it in HotS, as it presented in current state of a game.
well one of the most amazing stuff i found is this adorable little piggies :> they sooo cuuteee! (img attached) So yep, tell me guys your thoughts and let's have some discuss :)
@abvdzh: Go I agree on the hero models. Some of them are obviously designed in WOW style and they don't fit a MOBA or RTS game camera. They would be good for cutscenes, just like in that Tychus video they just released, but not for gameplay.
I can't say much about game mechanics because I'm not a MOBA player. Maybe I'll have more to say when they release the open beta.
And those are cute pigs. I hope we will be able to use a HotStorm dependency in SC2. Ohhh and maybe a pig hero!
Just read about the hero selection system, seems awfully familiar to the one from LoL (random pool rotation, buy heroes you want to permanently unlock 'em). Shame, was hoping for "Select anyone you want, anytime you want", like DotA. :X
@StealthToast: Go But it seems players will be able to expand that selection pretty fast. What got me worried is that without a team, players will select a hero and go blindly find a match with no knowledge of what the rest of the team picked. Someone correct me here if I got it wrong.
Yeah, but I think the heroes that they're making can go with eachother easily. The role selection begins at talents I think.
@Necromoni: Go Well, I saw MOBA players complaining about it. What if the team gets 5 Abathurs? It is simply impossible to play like that. The whole genre is built over the ideas a good team has a good arrangement of roles.
Talents are not enough to change roles that much.
The matchmaking system wont put 5 abathurs together -_-, not even 2
I'm pretty sure they've made it so that the system won't put the same hero more than once in a match, although it'd be lulzy (and gruelling) seeing 10 Abathurs duke it out. :P
Also, speaking of talents, they kinda remind me of passives/runes from D3, some of them at least. They don't look all that game-changing though.
Talents are not enough to change roles that much.
_____ Fasi
I've found it really depends on the hero. Understand that the talents simply change how your existing skills either work, or improve them. Consequently, yes, some heroes are pretty narrow. On the other hand, some heroes wildly vary based on the talents you take. I would say Arthas, Abathur and Zagara are among the best. Arthas can be played as a super tank, or he can go a focused burst dps (Envenom, Deaths Embrace, Sindragosa, Double Frostmourne skill). Zagara can pick hydra stuff for more dps, or roach/lings for push, or creep for map control. Abathur.... is Abathur, he can do damm near anything.