Hi Mapsters :)
I wanted to post that on Blizzard forums, but I've got a small problem with my WoW trial account, which now doesn't allow me to post on there website. I'm working with them to resolve the problem.
Anyways.
I'm going to discuss some things I would like to see or things I think would be interesting with the Starcraft 2 HotS expension.
You can agree, or desagree with what I think, but don't harass with stupid 1 line comments. Post feedback and your ideas inside your comments.
Ok, Lets start!
My first idea would be about the movable burrowed zerg units like the roaches and the infestors.
What if they could move through cliff? Aren't they underground? Why would a cliff stop them from digging?
It would adds some more mechanics to the game and much more strategies.
What you do to counter reapers rush wouldn't be the same to counter underground roaches. Roaches are invisble while underground, not like reapers which can be spoted by any nearby marines. And it would finally decrease ''a bit'' the usefullness of blocking our ramps, which is something I don't like (I hate ramp block, it decrease the power of the attacker too much). It would also add an enormous usefulness to all sensor type unit/building.
Everyone knows that protoss and terran can walk through cliffs, reapers and collossus. So what about zergs?
My second Idea is about the lurkers.
First of all, they are cool and unique. They are the only unit that can fight while being underground. But there is something to them I hate. They are ranged units... How can a spider lunches spine attacks? I hate that. I'm happy they haven't put the lurkers inside the game if it was to let them be like in SC1. Lurkers in my opinion, should burrow underground, and then rush to the spoted enemy, still being underground, and then attaking him, right below.
What I mean, is that lurkers should attack when they are at close range, underground. They would have a kind of ''zealot charge ability'' and would hit while being close to the attaked unit. Lurkers should also be able to fight while being OVERground with an attack that would look like the Hunterlings from the cool map they made, Left 2 die.
These are only a few of hundreds possible ideas for addons. Please, discuss them and comments. I don't want to see 1 line comments that says an opinion like wow cool or sucks. If you write something down below, please write something interesting to read and usefull and add your opinion to it, and describe it.
I'm not a fan of either idea. I think the fact roaches can move underground is powerful in itself. An invisible unit that can harass reaper style seems excessive.
As to your second idea, I think an underground melee unit would make them seem essentially like a Dark Templar with charge. I think Blizzard would want a more unique unit than that.
Sorry but I would have to agree with Aenigma. Don't ever think of what would make a unit more realistic, or what would make a unit "cooler". Don't think of what other races have, and look how to add them to the race that doesn't. If they did that, there would be no differences between the races but visuals.
I liked the analogy that Anenigma used with the dark templar. Don't think of "what unit would be cool to add" instead think "what function should a unit have to counter an op feature of another race".
There are many ways for a zerg to counter a terran wall in. Although I suck at melee in general, I know that early game banelings can easily be cost effective against a wall-in. Also, protoss has this ability too with sentries. Zerg doesn't but zerg can also make a new main buildings for 100 minerals less, and make more than 1 worker at once from each.
What would make more sense is to think, "what could I add to make the game more interesting?" For example, maybe have the lurker be able to spawn an egg of a unit out of it's back while burrowed? So like a mobile hatchery? Then after that, what can I add to the other races that could counter this? That doesn't mean adding a unit that does the same thing, that means making something that can counter it. For example, maybe give the terran bunker a behavior that will cause all units inside the bunker to be given a 4 or 5 armor reduction, but a 50% decrease in damage overall. Then this would be an excellent counter to the lurker, because then these bunkers would be able to kill the eggs that are being hatched.
One again, this is just my mindless brainstorming. But that is the process you need to go through, not "What would make this unit much cooler or realistic?". And if you do something like that, make sure that that question will not influence the actual function of the unit, only the visuals.
No... The "over the cliff" infiltration mechanic has always been either with:
1. Unit drops, medvac, warp prism/pylon warp+observer, overlord drop/nydus
2. Or with ranged unit with air units vision aids, Siege tank+air vision/orbital scan, collosi/blink stalker, broodlord
The current mechanic is perfect already imo. No need for burrowed over the cliff, esp. for the fact that it is very difficult to spot in minimap, as you need turret and detectors surrounding all your cliff perimeter. That's overkill.
Talking about reaper, speedling is essentially like reaper. it is so fast that it can go over ramp in a blink of an eye and infiltrate your ramp block if you made little mistake. Plus baneling bust can help too. On protoss side, blink stalker, or pylon warp in over-the-cliff rush is essentially reaper imo. Might not exactly be the same but it can function just like reaper if you think about it.
I played a rts game long ago which had everything propertionnaly correct, Immense building, Immense wall. small units... Switching building always needed the player to scroll the screen...
Well just to say that I know what you mean, but I don't want Blizzard to get Robot unit for Terrans that has shotgun that fires pistol that fires rockets bigger than them which pulse Gamma Rays to everyone nearby on the impact zone....
A bit of real dosen't kill anyone.. :O
There is a difference between unrealistic and impossible. I mean, the whole "zerg" thing in general is unrealistic. Saying that Lurkers are unrealistic because they shoot spines underground is like saying that Star Wars is unrealistic because you can't breathe in space... I mean come on, a giant alien that can shoot spines out of who knows where (hydra) and a flying "thing" with no realistic way of staying in the air that shoots "glave wurms" out of a mouth that comes out of its... tail is it? And you are calling a lurker unrealistic, because it can shoot spines while underground? How is tunneling underground faster than someone can run with acceleration of an unrealistic ability in the first place (charge) any better?
No offense, but when it comes to Starcraft, "it needs to be more realistic" is not something that you can argue.
Now back to what really matters. Like I said, you should always start with the functions that a unit should have, and their priamry purpose, and then add visuals and decide which unit that is going to be. In my opinion, I think that the game is good without a lurker. It's function has been replaced with, in some senses, a baneling, and in other senses, the roach. Zerg doesn't have any unit that can attack while being invisible (with the exception of the baneling" and I do not think that was an accident.
There is a difference between unrealistic and impossible. I mean, the whole "zerg" thing in general is unrealistic. Saying that Lurkers are unrealistic because they shoot spines underground is like saying that Star Wars is unrealistic because you can't breathe in space...
They have the appropriate equipment for that!! xD
I mean come on, a giant alien that can shoot spines out of who knows where (hydra) and a flying "thing" with no realistic way of staying in the air that shoots "glave wurms" out of a mouth that comes out of its... tail is it? And you are calling a lurker unrealistic, because it can shoot spines while underground? How is tunneling underground faster than someone can run with acceleration of an unrealistic ability in the first place (charge) any better?
No offense, but when it comes to Starcraft, "it needs to be more realistic" is not something that you can argue.
Now back to what really matters. Like I said, you should always start with the functions that a unit should have, and their priamry purpose, and then add visuals and decide which unit that is going to be. In my opinion, I think that the game is good without a lurker. It's function has been replaced with, in some senses, a baneling, and in other senses, the roach. Zerg doesn't have any unit that can attack while being invisible (with the exception of the baneling" and I do not think that was an accident.
How can Baneling attacks while being invisible?
Okay.. tanx for the tips, but that was just my opinion :P
Both ideas just seem straight out awful. That would give zerg too strong a unit too early in the game. Notice reapers are easily countered. Colossus are mid game and shouldn't be produced on one base unless you're going really aggressive.
According to your logic the terran and should also get a big ship that cloaks everything and can teleport your units from anywhere to it's location. Just because one race has something doesn't mean the others need it. Protoss can warp in anywhere, I don't think terran or zerg has that.
Lurkers were like colossi if I remember correctly. They were good against infantry units and lowered those numbers. Colossi can be in a fight and not get touched with the upgrade because the range is so long. It would give protoss more reason to use observers besides scouting and terran would have to be careful, still, to not overuse the scans or just get out a raven which we never see too much of, at least I haven't.
I dont like either idea, with reasons many have pointed out before me.
1.) No, burrow move past cliffs? Why dont we give High Templar a range 20 blink as well and put khaydarin back in? Get 2 infestors into a mineral line (Which with your idea is ridiculously easy), fungal growth everything twice and ta-da, you win the game! Workers can at least attempt to dodge psi storms, and neither HTs, warp prisms or anything else that can get them to a mineral line are invisible. Burrow move is good enough as it is.
2.) Lurker being unrealistic? Oh come on, you do know that the "fi" in sc-fi stands for "fiction", right? If we would want a realistic game, all we'd up end up with is TvT with marines that have 5 health, tanks that cant siege and some aircraft.
I would actually like to have the lurker. I haven't played SC1, but I like the concept of the unit. To me it seems like something that can very easily be used defensively, which is one thing I think Zerg lacks. I think of them sort of as Zerg Siege tanks - units you can't touch and deal a lot of damage. Like siege tanks, you're not gonna run straight into a line of lurkers, are you now?
And back to my zerg can use lurkers defensively point, don't tell me other units are defensive. Apart from the hydralisk, they are all very fast units that are more useful offensively than defensively, and the reason zerg can defend is because they can produce really quickly and move at insane speeds, whereas lurkers have a sort of defensive mechanic, they defend a position, and don't just run around from one end of the map to the other.
One thing I would like to see though is hydras getting a speed upgrade. Theyre the only proper anti air (apart from corruptors) and are too slow to be used as such.
Hi Mapsters :) I wanted to post that on Blizzard forums, but I've got a small problem with my WoW trial account, which now doesn't allow me to post on there website. I'm working with them to resolve the problem.
Anyways. I'm going to discuss some things I would like to see or things I think would be interesting with the Starcraft 2 HotS expension. You can agree, or desagree with what I think, but don't harass with stupid 1 line comments. Post feedback and your ideas inside your comments.
Ok, Lets start! My first idea would be about the movable burrowed zerg units like the roaches and the infestors. What if they could move through cliff? Aren't they underground? Why would a cliff stop them from digging? It would adds some more mechanics to the game and much more strategies. What you do to counter reapers rush wouldn't be the same to counter underground roaches. Roaches are invisble while underground, not like reapers which can be spoted by any nearby marines. And it would finally decrease ''a bit'' the usefullness of blocking our ramps, which is something I don't like (I hate ramp block, it decrease the power of the attacker too much). It would also add an enormous usefulness to all sensor type unit/building. Everyone knows that protoss and terran can walk through cliffs, reapers and collossus. So what about zergs?
My second Idea is about the lurkers. First of all, they are cool and unique. They are the only unit that can fight while being underground. But there is something to them I hate. They are ranged units... How can a spider lunches spine attacks? I hate that. I'm happy they haven't put the lurkers inside the game if it was to let them be like in SC1. Lurkers in my opinion, should burrow underground, and then rush to the spoted enemy, still being underground, and then attaking him, right below. What I mean, is that lurkers should attack when they are at close range, underground. They would have a kind of ''zealot charge ability'' and would hit while being close to the attaked unit. Lurkers should also be able to fight while being OVERground with an attack that would look like the Hunterlings from the cool map they made, Left 2 die.
These are only a few of hundreds possible ideas for addons. Please, discuss them and comments. I don't want to see 1 line comments that says an opinion like wow cool or sucks. If you write something down below, please write something interesting to read and usefull and add your opinion to it, and describe it.
Tanx Mike
Edit: What is a shmoe from Regular Shmoe?!? :O
I'm not a fan of either idea. I think the fact roaches can move underground is powerful in itself. An invisible unit that can harass reaper style seems excessive.
As to your second idea, I think an underground melee unit would make them seem essentially like a Dark Templar with charge. I think Blizzard would want a more unique unit than that.
@mnadeau1992: Go
Sorry but I would have to agree with Aenigma. Don't ever think of what would make a unit more realistic, or what would make a unit "cooler". Don't think of what other races have, and look how to add them to the race that doesn't. If they did that, there would be no differences between the races but visuals.
I liked the analogy that Anenigma used with the dark templar. Don't think of "what unit would be cool to add" instead think "what function should a unit have to counter an op feature of another race".
There are many ways for a zerg to counter a terran wall in. Although I suck at melee in general, I know that early game banelings can easily be cost effective against a wall-in. Also, protoss has this ability too with sentries. Zerg doesn't but zerg can also make a new main buildings for 100 minerals less, and make more than 1 worker at once from each.
What would make more sense is to think, "what could I add to make the game more interesting?" For example, maybe have the lurker be able to spawn an egg of a unit out of it's back while burrowed? So like a mobile hatchery? Then after that, what can I add to the other races that could counter this? That doesn't mean adding a unit that does the same thing, that means making something that can counter it. For example, maybe give the terran bunker a behavior that will cause all units inside the bunker to be given a 4 or 5 armor reduction, but a 50% decrease in damage overall. Then this would be an excellent counter to the lurker, because then these bunkers would be able to kill the eggs that are being hatched.
One again, this is just my mindless brainstorming. But that is the process you need to go through, not "What would make this unit much cooler or realistic?". And if you do something like that, make sure that that question will not influence the actual function of the unit, only the visuals.
Kinda get what I'm saying?
Great to be back and part of the community again!
@mnadeau1992: Go
No... The "over the cliff" infiltration mechanic has always been either with:
1. Unit drops, medvac, warp prism/pylon warp+observer, overlord drop/nydus
2. Or with ranged unit with air units vision aids, Siege tank+air vision/orbital scan, collosi/blink stalker, broodlord
The current mechanic is perfect already imo. No need for burrowed over the cliff, esp. for the fact that it is very difficult to spot in minimap, as you need turret and detectors surrounding all your cliff perimeter. That's overkill.
Talking about reaper, speedling is essentially like reaper. it is so fast that it can go over ramp in a blink of an eye and infiltrate your ramp block if you made little mistake. Plus baneling bust can help too. On protoss side, blink stalker, or pylon warp in over-the-cliff rush is essentially reaper imo. Might not exactly be the same but it can function just like reaper if you think about it.
@TacoManStan: Go
I do get it, but it's a bit weird...
I played a rts game long ago which had everything propertionnaly correct, Immense building, Immense wall. small units... Switching building always needed the player to scroll the screen...
Well just to say that I know what you mean, but I don't want Blizzard to get Robot unit for Terrans that has shotgun that fires pistol that fires rockets bigger than them which pulse Gamma Rays to everyone nearby on the impact zone.... A bit of real dosen't kill anyone.. :O
@mnadeau1992: Go
There is a difference between unrealistic and impossible. I mean, the whole "zerg" thing in general is unrealistic. Saying that Lurkers are unrealistic because they shoot spines underground is like saying that Star Wars is unrealistic because you can't breathe in space... I mean come on, a giant alien that can shoot spines out of who knows where (hydra) and a flying "thing" with no realistic way of staying in the air that shoots "glave wurms" out of a mouth that comes out of its... tail is it? And you are calling a lurker unrealistic, because it can shoot spines while underground? How is tunneling underground faster than someone can run with acceleration of an unrealistic ability in the first place (charge) any better?
No offense, but when it comes to Starcraft, "it needs to be more realistic" is not something that you can argue.
Now back to what really matters. Like I said, you should always start with the functions that a unit should have, and their priamry purpose, and then add visuals and decide which unit that is going to be. In my opinion, I think that the game is good without a lurker. It's function has been replaced with, in some senses, a baneling, and in other senses, the roach. Zerg doesn't have any unit that can attack while being invisible (with the exception of the baneling" and I do not think that was an accident.
Great to be back and part of the community again!
Okay.. tanx for the tips, but that was just my opinion :P
Both ideas just seem straight out awful. That would give zerg too strong a unit too early in the game. Notice reapers are easily countered. Colossus are mid game and shouldn't be produced on one base unless you're going really aggressive.
According to your logic the terran and should also get a big ship that cloaks everything and can teleport your units from anywhere to it's location. Just because one race has something doesn't mean the others need it. Protoss can warp in anywhere, I don't think terran or zerg has that.
Lurkers were like colossi if I remember correctly. They were good against infantry units and lowered those numbers. Colossi can be in a fight and not get touched with the upgrade because the range is so long. It would give protoss more reason to use observers besides scouting and terran would have to be careful, still, to not overuse the scans or just get out a raven which we never see too much of, at least I haven't.
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ModeratorsI definitely smell an upgrade for zerg buildings that allows them to move and attack similar to WC3 nightelves.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
I dont like either idea, with reasons many have pointed out before me.
1.) No, burrow move past cliffs? Why dont we give High Templar a range 20 blink as well and put khaydarin back in? Get 2 infestors into a mineral line (Which with your idea is ridiculously easy), fungal growth everything twice and ta-da, you win the game! Workers can at least attempt to dodge psi storms, and neither HTs, warp prisms or anything else that can get them to a mineral line are invisible. Burrow move is good enough as it is.
2.) Lurker being unrealistic? Oh come on, you do know that the "fi" in sc-fi stands for "fiction", right? If we would want a realistic game, all we'd up end up with is TvT with marines that have 5 health, tanks that cant siege and some aircraft.
I would actually like to have the lurker. I haven't played SC1, but I like the concept of the unit. To me it seems like something that can very easily be used defensively, which is one thing I think Zerg lacks. I think of them sort of as Zerg Siege tanks - units you can't touch and deal a lot of damage. Like siege tanks, you're not gonna run straight into a line of lurkers, are you now?
And back to my zerg can use lurkers defensively point, don't tell me other units are defensive. Apart from the hydralisk, they are all very fast units that are more useful offensively than defensively, and the reason zerg can defend is because they can produce really quickly and move at insane speeds, whereas lurkers have a sort of defensive mechanic, they defend a position, and don't just run around from one end of the map to the other.
One thing I would like to see though is hydras getting a speed upgrade. Theyre the only proper anti air (apart from corruptors) and are too slow to be used as such.
@mnadeau1992: Go
Banelings can burrow and detonate while burrowed, that's how they attack while invisible.
Lurkers and defilers were my favourite units in sc1 so i hope they show in HotS