i start to be really pissed off by the SC2 community and especially the mappers part of it.
we all know that, with the popularity system being such a pain in the ass, it is already very hard to get any attention on your map, any feedback or players.
you can form up a team of mappers, work weeks or months and if you ask for some feedback noone gives a damn, not even looking at it.
i have a map running since MONTHS now, with all the information any player would need to provide any feedback at all, email address, link to the map´s homepage and even a own "non-registration required" forum.
in these months i got about 5 emails and one forum post. about half of these emails contained things like "DUDE you need more space terrain!!!11"
wow seriously? that specific map has about 80hrs playtime (on EU only) so there are players playing it (even if its not that much).
what is the problem with the players or the community?
now another project. a friend and i we created "Elemental TankWars".
i made a thread here on mapster on the 22nd of june.
4 days after that eletd made his thread (no offense to you guys, awesome map! you deserve the attention!)
but that thread has 45 posts, 800 views - ours has no post at all except me bumping it and 100 views.
how is anyone supposed to create some decent maps with this monopoly kind of map community?
i dont want to force anyone to play my map, but at least trying it once and writing down one or two lines of feedback - is that too much?
i really love mapping, i learned tons of things starting with basic triggering now being able to use the data editor to create some cool things (not that awesome but it is okay..) but i start to aks myself - why? why would i waste my time into creating more maps if noone cares?
not even a big mapping community seems to care about anything their mappers do except well-known map-remakes with a already huge own community behind them.
i had some - at least i think - cool ideas in the past, stargate galaxies (we had a cool team, thanks to you guys - but suddelny everyone had things to do and noone ever thought about it again - reqruiting new guys is impossible), stranded or the mount and blade mod.
not even recruiting is possible, because everyone seems to want to make his very own dota/nexuswars/super special 3rd person rpg
so, this post is now a little bit longer than expected... but i ask - why? is anyone able to answer this question?
i hope anyone who reads this, if anyone reads it was able to do so - i know my english isnt the best.
Sigh..
How painfully oblivious and ignorant you are.
Im sure someone will come a long and give you advice/information in specific. I was going to reply in length but scrapped it. Would have been too harsh(though true nonetheless).
I don't think most custom map developers are actually in the demographic that custom maps are targeted toward.
I for one couldn't care less about other peoples' projects. I haven't found a single custom map I really enjoy (except Marine Arena, but I don't care enough to participate in its development or give feedback).
I only like working on my own and only care about the attention my own maps receive.
I like answering peoples' editor questions however. It makes me feel smart.
oh please.. eternal your smart ass posting is sooo cool. seriously, im freezing here. awesome dude.
come on, explain it to me in the harshest words you can possibly find. i beg you!
@vexal sure there are these kind of people, and i have no problem with them.
but also there are people around here playing maps and testing stuff but ignoring everything if there isnt one of the "big guys" involveld - at least it seems that way.
that is the problem, i dont know what the exact issue is - thats why it doesnt makes sense why i would be ignorant, but okay..
It can be very frustrating I know, the best thing you can is look at other project pages which have alot of responses. Look how they worded there thread, the format, the tone etc.
A brief, clear, to the point description is best and always try to include some pictures or even a preview vid if possible.
Lastly always stay very positive, it helps motivate people in wanting to reply.
Well, I know that it's a bad excuse for me, but I just don't play on Bnet, coz of lack of time and massive lags of my comp. :] So I can give you terrain feedback (ex. your (3) Up and at them) or overall gameplay, but sadly not in-game play experience. I made that post just to let you know that i cared and read through it.
If you want some help with terraining or triggering which I want to learn some day, I will gladly help. And I think Stargate galaxies still have to be done.
Shit, while I was answering 4 new posts was made D:
i know my english sucks, and that isnt the best presentation - but his is (no offense) just a wall of text with features. i think my presentation could be enough to at least show what the game is about...
i could compare other threads like eletd with the initial post being "discuss." or the heroes of might and magic that basically is some screenshots.
If you can't be there yourself but still want your map to be tested and get some feedback, make sure to PM TheAlmaity.
If we manage to play your map (if we get the player number for it), he surely will also write some feedback about your map in the Map Night thread.
You might have presented to much information initially, it looks a bit daunting reading all that. Maybe cut it down to just 2 paragraphs and ditch all the titles.
Also the screenshot would be better from in game. Like attach 10-15 of your best screenshots of the gameplay., preferably a full house if you can manage.
not that i havent tried. (actually 2 times, both times it has not been played)
but thats not the map night´s fault, im pretty sure that it will be played sooner or later and im thankful for the map night because that is a chance to get feedback and its a good thing.
Hey man, I apoligize again for not having played your map the past two weeks :( First time it just slipped my mind (and it wasnt the only map I was supposed to get tested that week that we didnt play) and the second week as I said we had the wrong amount of players for just about everything :/ we only got to play 1 4v4 map, and again, srry for it not having been yours (Blame Küken for creating HLW, a map that I just have to play every map night :p )
I saw your thread about the tanks and thought about replying saying that I was gonna test it during map night, but I already posted in the map night thread and didnt want to just post the same thing in multiple threads, so...
@Hobrow: Go
As he said, Hobrow, he already posted on the map night thread ;) He also posted a long time ago about his Hero Wars map (What happened to that by the way? I would've really like to see that continue :) )
Anyway, on topic... Yea, getting feedback is hard, and is one of the main reasons I'm doing map night. If you check the thread, you'll see that I almost every week post a gigantic post with feedback to all the maps we played and I always try to get other people to do the same. One thing I found helped was to get a few people to play the map with you (in my case, during map night) and then give them a link to a sort of survey about the map (www.bit.ly/god-feedback Look at that, it might give you some ideas) It helped me a lot since I got feedback on things in my map that even people who gave very descriptive feedback wouldn't comment on
no need to apologize, like i said i know that you wasnt able to play it and im not blaming map night for not getting feedback ;)
you map night project is awesome, i wish there were more people gathering to play some custom maps.
about herowars, development is still running and the map has been updated a lot. hope to see you guys play it on a map night soon again to see how you like the actual changes.
Will give it a try next week if we can ;) 3v3, right?
Also, one thing I forgot to mention in the previous post, about Stargate Galaxies. If I remember right, I created my sc2mapster account to apply to your team :p I'd gladly help out if you decide to revive the project, at least how much I can
You are known for putting yourself "out there" yes .. and your commentaries are done on all the maps you played.. ty almaiti for showing it can be attempted ;^p
i'm sorry for you patchone (love your nick by the way), but as most realist/lazy bastards, i scratched my project(s).. finding out exactly what you said...
i have no time to study the editor and game, so (since i would rather find things out on my own without tutorials (im up to triggers next :) ) i have to bid my time ... just because this is a very very very competitive passion.. mapmaking.
Advertising is just one of the byproducts involved (probably the worst part ;) ), finding beta testers worth a damn.. then getting (and taking care of) invested players.. who in turn will get your map played etc...
and on mapster or on other sites.. mapmakers' time is scarce.. as for players, they are lazy winners who like finished polished original products but:
1/will never say its good, it could be more like this or like that.. trying to sound cute :)
2/will quit playing after 15 seconds of play = "this sucks lol" ect...
3/are your target/client ... so in a sense .. its a bit of a pickle
4/have no idea what work and passion it involves to do the work... honest they think "someone did this [end of thought]".. not "could i help"
and that's not really "their fault", just the nature of the beast in 2011
In defense of the guy with a sigh and a cloak.. just check it out for yourself (i did):
no one ever gets players .. and few mapmakers go out of their way.. mapmakers' project page are mostly ALL left empty of any post/bump/criticism/feedback/whatever other ...
Do post your map in different forums (don't spam like Mr Alves, leaving bananas everywhere for people to slip on ;^) but find your own way of doing it :) (and i'm sure you'll do it earnestly and with verve) ; do post it on several sites (corraling the players so to say.. mapster remaining home base of course, cause you won't find a safer haven :) )
Do the map nite with them, talk on skype (or other) while doing it to show them what you think is cool (what you know is cool!), post to practice posting :) , "beg" in project workplace.. promise the almighty some cake.. etc
believe me i'd gladly
1/like to give you reassuring news.. only originality (hidden and then flaunted) and proper beta testers' polish/balance/gameplay/fun and advertising and hosting players will get you attention (if you are not "known already") to get your map played..
2/cry out to Eliza out in the dark woods simultaneously with you: "too many maps" "black sheep wall u bitch".. but sadly she will ignore us
3/do at least several 1v1 to help u balance.. just join photon cycles and if you see littlenemo is on (me) just ask "wanna help out with a tank mod?"ll come right after i finish up my current game (leaving before would be bm) ;)
glhf (ooo and i hate patches, but watcha gonna do ;^) (aaaaa only one patch, the dream cannot be real :) )
Will give it a try next week if we can ;) 3v3, right?
Also, one thing I forgot to mention in the previous post, about Stargate Galaxies. If I remember right, I created my sc2mapster account to apply to your team :p I'd gladly help out if you decide to revive the project, at least how much I can
wow really? what an honor :D
i definitly thought about reviving it and it might happen in the next weeks or so. i'll let you know.
about herowars, basically it works from 1v1 up to 5v5 so whatever you like.
Ok, 5v5, just needed to know the player number, havent played it in a while so I forgot. If you need hero ideas, try my map (gates of darkness), ive got a bunch of heroes and will share any info on how I made them if it helps you ;) (I can send you the map file if needed)
5v5 is good, 10 players is a good number for map night. 14 and uneven teams is probably the best possible, but 5v5 is good enough ;) better than 4v4 and 3v3
Since I'm sure people are already bored of me saying it, I'll just point at my signature. *points at signature*
Also, thats one of your first posts I didnt have to read twice to understand, lol. no offense ;)
sure, herowars isnt really unique. it is an obvious wc3 map remake and i never said anything else - but why is that a reason for the players not to send me an email? i really dont know, do you?
also even if this map is an basic tug of war, it isnt anything like something thats already on sc2.
but this "being pissed off thread" is about the tankwars and its feedback thread in the first place. the herowars has been played and i got - even if its not much - a little bit feedback and still have to work on it.
what my point is is what i explained in the firstpost, my thread being there even longer than eletd´s and not getting even one post etc.. and the main reason why noone in the mapping community cares about maps except they are theire own or from a known name.
wow, haha! i remember now - well that thread makes me want to play the game right now
i think im gonna definitly revive it in one or the other way.. probably some of the old members are on it as well (like zarakk would be awesome..)
Good Evening.
i start to be really pissed off by the SC2 community and especially the mappers part of it.
we all know that, with the popularity system being such a pain in the ass, it is already very hard to get any attention on your map, any feedback or players. you can form up a team of mappers, work weeks or months and if you ask for some feedback noone gives a damn, not even looking at it.
i have a map running since MONTHS now, with all the information any player would need to provide any feedback at all, email address, link to the map´s homepage and even a own "non-registration required" forum. in these months i got about 5 emails and one forum post. about half of these emails contained things like "DUDE you need more space terrain!!!11" wow seriously? that specific map has about 80hrs playtime (on EU only) so there are players playing it (even if its not that much).
what is the problem with the players or the community?
now another project. a friend and i we created "Elemental TankWars".
i made a thread here on mapster on the 22nd of june. 4 days after that eletd made his thread (no offense to you guys, awesome map! you deserve the attention!)
but that thread has 45 posts, 800 views - ours has no post at all except me bumping it and 100 views.
how is anyone supposed to create some decent maps with this monopoly kind of map community?
i dont want to force anyone to play my map, but at least trying it once and writing down one or two lines of feedback - is that too much?
i really love mapping, i learned tons of things starting with basic triggering now being able to use the data editor to create some cool things (not that awesome but it is okay..) but i start to aks myself - why? why would i waste my time into creating more maps if noone cares? not even a big mapping community seems to care about anything their mappers do except well-known map-remakes with a already huge own community behind them.
i had some - at least i think - cool ideas in the past, stargate galaxies (we had a cool team, thanks to you guys - but suddelny everyone had things to do and noone ever thought about it again - reqruiting new guys is impossible), stranded or the mount and blade mod.
not even recruiting is possible, because everyone seems to want to make his very own dota/nexuswars/super special 3rd person rpg
so, this post is now a little bit longer than expected... but i ask - why? is anyone able to answer this question?
i hope anyone who reads this, if anyone reads it was able to do so - i know my english isnt the best.
regards.
@PatchOne: Go
Sigh..
How painfully oblivious and ignorant you are.
Im sure someone will come a long and give you advice/information in specific. I was going to reply in length but scrapped it. Would have been too harsh(though true nonetheless).
I don't think most custom map developers are actually in the demographic that custom maps are targeted toward.
I for one couldn't care less about other peoples' projects. I haven't found a single custom map I really enjoy (except Marine Arena, but I don't care enough to participate in its development or give feedback).
I only like working on my own and only care about the attention my own maps receive.
I like answering peoples' editor questions however. It makes me feel smart.
oh please.. eternal your smart ass posting is sooo cool. seriously, im freezing here. awesome dude.
come on, explain it to me in the harshest words you can possibly find. i beg you!
@vexal sure there are these kind of people, and i have no problem with them.
but also there are people around here playing maps and testing stuff but ignoring everything if there isnt one of the "big guys" involveld - at least it seems that way.
that is the problem, i dont know what the exact issue is - thats why it doesnt makes sense why i would be ignorant, but okay..
It can be very frustrating I know, the best thing you can is look at other project pages which have alot of responses. Look how they worded there thread, the format, the tone etc.
A brief, clear, to the point description is best and always try to include some pictures or even a preview vid if possible.
Lastly always stay very positive, it helps motivate people in wanting to reply.
Well, I know that it's a bad excuse for me, but I just don't play on Bnet, coz of lack of time and massive lags of my comp. :] So I can give you terrain feedback (ex. your (3) Up and at them) or overall gameplay, but sadly not in-game play experience. I made that post just to let you know that i cared and read through it.
If you want some help with terraining or triggering which I want to learn some day, I will gladly help. And I think Stargate galaxies still have to be done.
Shit, while I was answering 4 new posts was made D:
@Fullachain: Go
have you read any of my threads about the projects? i mean, like that tankwars one?
just compare the first post to lets say the naz^zombie one...
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/player-zone/map-feedback/22866-elemental-tank-wars/#p4
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/player-zone/map-feedback/22178-naz-zombies/#posts
i know my english sucks, and that isnt the best presentation - but his is (no offense) just a wall of text with features. i think my presentation could be enough to at least show what the game is about...
i could compare other threads like eletd with the initial post being "discuss." or the heroes of might and magic that basically is some screenshots.
@ktilkath: Go
to the up and at them thing.. i better delete that one :>
it was in the beta of sc2 and a very baaad idea.. just wanted to create a 3players 1v1v1 map and well.. just ignore that one ;)
@PatchOne: Go
Come to Mapnight. We are always looking for new maps and players!
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/general/general-chat/18556-eu-map-night/
If you can't be there yourself but still want your map to be tested and get some feedback, make sure to PM TheAlmaity. If we manage to play your map (if we get the player number for it), he surely will also write some feedback about your map in the Map Night thread.
@PatchOne: Go
You might have presented to much information initially, it looks a bit daunting reading all that. Maybe cut it down to just 2 paragraphs and ditch all the titles.
Also the screenshot would be better from in game. Like attach 10-15 of your best screenshots of the gameplay., preferably a full house if you can manage.
@Hobrow: Go
yeah well..
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/18556-eu-map-night/?page=16#p315
not that i havent tried. (actually 2 times, both times it has not been played)
but thats not the map night´s fault, im pretty sure that it will be played sooner or later and im thankful for the map night because that is a chance to get feedback and its a good thing.
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ModeratorsDare I ask what is your map?
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
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@DrSuperEvil: Go
first map is HeroWars Ultimate!, published months ago, constant of like 50-80 hrs playtime, barely any feedback.
second one is the latest project Elemental TankWars
@PatchOne: Go
Hey man, I apoligize again for not having played your map the past two weeks :( First time it just slipped my mind (and it wasnt the only map I was supposed to get tested that week that we didnt play) and the second week as I said we had the wrong amount of players for just about everything :/ we only got to play 1 4v4 map, and again, srry for it not having been yours (Blame Küken for creating HLW, a map that I just have to play every map night :p )
I saw your thread about the tanks and thought about replying saying that I was gonna test it during map night, but I already posted in the map night thread and didnt want to just post the same thing in multiple threads, so...
@Hobrow: Go As he said, Hobrow, he already posted on the map night thread ;) He also posted a long time ago about his Hero Wars map (What happened to that by the way? I would've really like to see that continue :) )
Anyway, on topic... Yea, getting feedback is hard, and is one of the main reasons I'm doing map night. If you check the thread, you'll see that I almost every week post a gigantic post with feedback to all the maps we played and I always try to get other people to do the same. One thing I found helped was to get a few people to play the map with you (in my case, during map night) and then give them a link to a sort of survey about the map (www.bit.ly/god-feedback Look at that, it might give you some ideas) It helped me a lot since I got feedback on things in my map that even people who gave very descriptive feedback wouldn't comment on
@TheAlmaity: Go
Hey TheAlmaity.
no need to apologize, like i said i know that you wasnt able to play it and im not blaming map night for not getting feedback ;)
you map night project is awesome, i wish there were more people gathering to play some custom maps.
about herowars, development is still running and the map has been updated a lot. hope to see you guys play it on a map night soon again to see how you like the actual changes.
@PatchOne: Go
Will give it a try next week if we can ;) 3v3, right?
Also, one thing I forgot to mention in the previous post, about Stargate Galaxies. If I remember right, I created my sc2mapster account to apply to your team :p I'd gladly help out if you decide to revive the project, at least how much I can
You are known for putting yourself "out there" yes .. and your commentaries are done on all the maps you played.. ty almaiti for showing it can be attempted ;^p
i'm sorry for you patchone (love your nick by the way), but as most realist/lazy bastards, i scratched my project(s).. finding out exactly what you said...
i have no time to study the editor and game, so (since i would rather find things out on my own without tutorials (im up to triggers next :) ) i have to bid my time ... just because this is a very very very competitive passion.. mapmaking.
Advertising is just one of the byproducts involved (probably the worst part ;) ), finding beta testers worth a damn.. then getting (and taking care of) invested players.. who in turn will get your map played etc...
and on mapster or on other sites.. mapmakers' time is scarce.. as for players, they are lazy winners who like finished polished original products but:
1/will never say its good, it could be more like this or like that.. trying to sound cute :)
2/will quit playing after 15 seconds of play = "this sucks lol" ect...
3/are your target/client ... so in a sense .. its a bit of a pickle
4/have no idea what work and passion it involves to do the work... honest they think "someone did this [end of thought]".. not "could i help"
and that's not really "their fault", just the nature of the beast in 2011
In defense of the guy with a sigh and a cloak.. just check it out for yourself (i did):
no one ever gets players .. and few mapmakers go out of their way.. mapmakers' project page are mostly ALL left empty of any post/bump/criticism/feedback/whatever other ...
Do post your map in different forums (don't spam like Mr Alves, leaving bananas everywhere for people to slip on ;^) but find your own way of doing it :) (and i'm sure you'll do it earnestly and with verve) ; do post it on several sites (corraling the players so to say.. mapster remaining home base of course, cause you won't find a safer haven :) )
Do the map nite with them, talk on skype (or other) while doing it to show them what you think is cool (what you know is cool!), post to practice posting :) , "beg" in project workplace.. promise the almighty some cake.. etc
believe me i'd gladly
1/like to give you reassuring news.. only originality (hidden and then flaunted) and proper beta testers' polish/balance/gameplay/fun and advertising and hosting players will get you attention (if you are not "known already") to get your map played..
2/cry out to Eliza out in the dark woods simultaneously with you: "too many maps" "black sheep wall u bitch".. but sadly she will ignore us
3/do at least several 1v1 to help u balance.. just join photon cycles and if you see littlenemo is on (me) just ask "wanna help out with a tank mod?"ll come right after i finish up my current game (leaving before would be bm) ;)
glhf (ooo and i hate patches, but watcha gonna do ;^) (aaaaa only one patch, the dream cannot be real :) )
wow really? what an honor :D
i definitly thought about reviving it and it might happen in the next weeks or so. i'll let you know.
about herowars, basically it works from 1v1 up to 5v5 so whatever you like.
Ok, 5v5, just needed to know the player number, havent played it in a while so I forgot. If you need hero ideas, try my map (gates of darkness), ive got a bunch of heroes and will share any info on how I made them if it helps you ;) (I can send you the map file if needed)
5v5 is good, 10 players is a good number for map night. 14 and uneven teams is probably the best possible, but 5v5 is good enough ;) better than 4v4 and 3v3
Since I'm sure people are already bored of me saying it, I'll just point at my signature. *points at signature*
Also, thats one of your first posts I didnt have to read twice to understand, lol. no offense ;)
EDIT: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/project-workplace/2004-stargate-idea-possible/?post=31
My first post on mapster :) 30th may 2010, your thread ;)
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ModeratorsSo how is your wars maps any different from all the other copy cats?
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@DrSuperEvil: Go
sure, herowars isnt really unique. it is an obvious wc3 map remake and i never said anything else - but why is that a reason for the players not to send me an email? i really dont know, do you?
also even if this map is an basic tug of war, it isnt anything like something thats already on sc2.
but this "being pissed off thread" is about the tankwars and its feedback thread in the first place. the herowars has been played and i got - even if its not much - a little bit feedback and still have to work on it.
what my point is is what i explained in the firstpost, my thread being there even longer than eletd´s and not getting even one post etc.. and the main reason why noone in the mapping community cares about maps except they are theire own or from a known name.
wow, haha! i remember now - well that thread makes me want to play the game right now
i think im gonna definitly revive it in one or the other way.. probably some of the old members are on it as well (like zarakk would be awesome..)