- Raise units' radius.
- Lower units' weapon ranges.
- Do not use 1 big group to order units.
- Tinker with footprints that the units create every now and then to block the pathfinding through the area they stand on.
- Create a trigger that orders units to a formation at the destination point, so the units won't have the same target point for their command.
- Uninstall SC2 game engine.
- Define SC2's clumping.
- Define your problem in a way that it can be solved better instead of solving it with the general solution of modifying the game engine (especially pathfinding algorithms) which we can't.
But if I for example add twice the radius to a Zealot, when thay are clumped up, a siege tank still splash damages the same number of zealots as if they had low radius. They just look to be standing far apart each other, but in actual gameplay, area effect have effetcs have the same effect on them as if they would stand close to each other.
But if I for example add twice the radius to a Zealot, when thay are clumped up, a siege tank still splash damages the same number of zealots as if they had low radius. They just look to be standing far apart each other, but in actual gameplay, area effect have effetcs have the same effect on them as if they would stand close to each other.
How can I change that? O_o
Reduce the splash size of the siege tank. Yes, that's a silly answer to what you really want to accomplish, but that was an answer to your question.
Your problem (SCBW vs SC2):
- SCBW units blocked each other while units were moving -> units didn't clump. They walked in a chain as they tried to move around the unit that was in front of them (if they had to change direction because the path finding was terrible compared to current games, but awesome at its time).
[there are other blocking sources like the weapon range scan timing (unit walks to far), strange paths like walking in a "v" form to reach the target point, delays in pathfinding while moving around other units (unit stands thare for 2 seconds before moving sidewards)]
- SC2 units don't block each other while units were moving -> units walk in clumps. If units block each other due to actions (-> attack) they intelligently move around each other and even move in circles around the target to find a free spot. There are no delays because a unit is in the way of another unit.
- SC2 has 255 units as selection limit. -> you can move your whole army within the magic box to clump them.
- SCBW has 12 units as selection limit. -> clumping all of your units is harder because each group has their own magic box.
The result:
- Moving the army as a big ball is the default behavior for armies in sc2 because grouping and ordering is easy.
- Due to selection problems, you naturally split your units in scbw and together with the blocking pathing you have a few lines running around (if you order them far enough).
The magic box and formation range:
Both games have a "magic box" which allows units to stay in a formation pattern. If you click inside the box, the units will clump. If you click outside the box the units will move in a formation to their position inside a formation box.
The "magic box" is defined by a rectangle around all the selected units. The formation area is defined within the data editor and has a fixed value.
This is what Zobotron refers to.
It's a value that controls when all ordered units will decide to move to the target point and ignore their position inside the magic box. If you set that value to 0, the units will always clump as they all will always walk to the target point.
If you set it to a very high value, every unit you select will always stay in formation regardless, if it is on the other site of the map
(EXAMPLE: your army is south east and that one unit is at south west; you click to attack north east and the unit in south east will attack north west because it stays in formation).
-> So if you raise that value to high, you might lose control over the units as you want all units attack the target area.
-> If you lower that value to low, your units tend to always ignore their formation, so they all move towards the target point instead of a point around the target point defined by their own position.
SCBW had the same system. If some units are to far away from the group, all units will move towards the target point and try to cluster there. Else they move to a point within the target area based on their formation.
The movement seperation radius does not effect ground units. As TheAlmaity stated it controls the spreading of air units when they idle.
Inner radius only effects how close you can walk to buildings. This radius is max the unit's radius, so bigger numbers have no effect.
The unit's radius defines the borders of the unit. This is how much space it requires on the map to move and interact with other units.
Conclusion
Your problem is that units don't block each other because of the improved pathfinding.
(A good side effect is that units can push other units, so moving a ghost out of your bio ball is super easy and fast).
Currently there is no good way to f*ck up the pathing of units to make them more retarded (-> scbw dragoon) or to make them block each other while moving/turning or block them longer while other units perform actions (-> scbw's marines attacking a building).
Raising the unit's radius will make them visually spread out much more. But they can be hit with that radius and fire from the edge of the radius, too. Also splash damage and search effects can hit in a bigger area, if the flags are set up for that. Else they will mostly hit less units because the units raised in their size. Melee units might look stupid (-> visual distance between units), if you only raise their radius and not their actors scale.
You can also increase formation sizes somewhere in Gameplay Data
Gameplay Data -> Mixed Formation Diameter
(name might be different, I'm using the raw data as my source for the English name as I use a localized editor)
Gameplay Data -> Mixed Formation Diameter
(name might be different, I'm using the raw data as my source for the English name as I use a localized editor)
Air units have their own formation diameter.
I can´t find gameplay data.. :(:(:(
Give me more clues please. I am so eager right now!
There seems to be no difference if I have for example 12, 50 or maximum value in the formation diameter (mixed) cause they seem to behaive quite similar. It is a big difference between the standard value of 4, and everything higher, but other then that everything seems to be the same..
What does the value actually mean and indicate? (formation diameter)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Is there any way to make units NOT clump up the way they do in SC2?
Come on! There must be some way to make units not clump up the way they do in SC2!
- Raise units' radius.
- Lower units' weapon ranges.
- Do not use 1 big group to order units.
- Tinker with footprints that the units create every now and then to block the pathfinding through the area they stand on.
- Create a trigger that orders units to a formation at the destination point, so the units won't have the same target point for their command.
- Uninstall SC2 game engine.
- Define SC2's clumping.
- Define your problem in a way that it can be solved better instead of solving it with the general solution of modifying the game engine (especially pathfinding algorithms) which we can't.
You can also increase formation sizes somewhere in Gameplay Data
But if I for example add twice the radius to a Zealot, when thay are clumped up, a siege tank still splash damages the same number of zealots as if they had low radius. They just look to be standing far apart each other, but in actual gameplay, area effect have effetcs have the same effect on them as if they would stand close to each other.
How can I change that? O_o
you could give them behaviors that periodically use force effects to push them apart, but I think that that would probably be an ugly solution.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
ModeratorsTry increasing the Movement - Separation Radius?
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
Reduce the splash size of the siege tank. Yes, that's a silly answer to what you really want to accomplish, but that was an answer to your question.
Your problem (SCBW vs SC2):
- SCBW units blocked each other while units were moving -> units didn't clump. They walked in a chain as they tried to move around the unit that was in front of them (if they had to change direction because the path finding was terrible compared to current games, but awesome at its time).
[there are other blocking sources like the weapon range scan timing (unit walks to far), strange paths like walking in a "v" form to reach the target point, delays in pathfinding while moving around other units (unit stands thare for 2 seconds before moving sidewards)]
- SC2 units don't block each other while units were moving -> units walk in clumps. If units block each other due to actions (-> attack) they intelligently move around each other and even move in circles around the target to find a free spot. There are no delays because a unit is in the way of another unit.
- SC2 has 255 units as selection limit. -> you can move your whole army within the magic box to clump them.
- SCBW has 12 units as selection limit. -> clumping all of your units is harder because each group has their own magic box.
The result:
- Moving the army as a big ball is the default behavior for armies in sc2 because grouping and ordering is easy.
- Due to selection problems, you naturally split your units in scbw and together with the blocking pathing you have a few lines running around (if you order them far enough).
The magic box and formation range:
Both games have a "magic box" which allows units to stay in a formation pattern. If you click inside the box, the units will clump. If you click outside the box the units will move in a formation to their position inside a formation box.
The "magic box" is defined by a rectangle around all the selected units. The formation area is defined within the data editor and has a fixed value.
This is what Zobotron refers to.
It's a value that controls when all ordered units will decide to move to the target point and ignore their position inside the magic box. If you set that value to 0, the units will always clump as they all will always walk to the target point.
If you set it to a very high value, every unit you select will always stay in formation regardless, if it is on the other site of the map
(EXAMPLE: your army is south east and that one unit is at south west; you click to attack north east and the unit in south east will attack north west because it stays in formation).
-> So if you raise that value to high, you might lose control over the units as you want all units attack the target area.
-> If you lower that value to low, your units tend to always ignore their formation, so they all move towards the target point instead of a point around the target point defined by their own position.
SCBW had the same system. If some units are to far away from the group, all units will move towards the target point and try to cluster there. Else they move to a point within the target area based on their formation.
@DrSuperEvil: Go
Radius
The movement seperation radius does not effect ground units. As TheAlmaity stated it controls the spreading of air units when they idle.
Inner radius only effects how close you can walk to buildings. This radius is max the unit's radius, so bigger numbers have no effect.
The unit's radius defines the borders of the unit. This is how much space it requires on the map to move and interact with other units.
Conclusion
Your problem is that units don't block each other because of the improved pathfinding.
(A good side effect is that units can push other units, so moving a ghost out of your bio ball is super easy and fast).
Currently there is no good way to f*ck up the pathing of units to make them more retarded (-> scbw dragoon) or to make them block each other while moving/turning or block them longer while other units perform actions (-> scbw's marines attacking a building).
Raising the unit's radius will make them visually spread out much more. But they can be hit with that radius and fire from the edge of the radius, too. Also splash damage and search effects can hit in a bigger area, if the flags are set up for that. Else they will mostly hit less units because the units raised in their size. Melee units might look stupid (-> visual distance between units), if you only raise their radius and not their actors scale.
@Ahli634: Go
But where do I change the formation range value?! :O
I am looking inside the editor. I find no such value!
@Kabelkorven: Go
Gameplay Data -> Mixed Formation Diameter
(name might be different, I'm using the raw data as my source for the English name as I use a localized editor)
Air units have their own formation diameter.
I can´t find gameplay data.. :( :( :(
Give me more clues please. I am so eager right now!
@Forge_User_62748943: Go
It's in the advanced category list of the data editor. Gameplay data or game data or something like that should be the name.
There seems to be no difference if I have for example 12, 50 or maximum value in the formation diameter (mixed) cause they seem to behaive quite similar. It is a big difference between the standard value of 4, and everything higher, but other then that everything seems to be the same..
What does the value actually mean and indicate? (formation diameter)