I'm new to the forum and the map editor in general. Right now I'm attempting to create an in-game version of the Minotaur class BC you see in the cut scenes. I'm texturing it right now, but thinking I might re-model the gun geo since I'm not really feeling it in hindsight. I'd really love any constructive feedback the community could provide since this is my first model in the blizzard style.
Always great seeing active modelers on the boards.
For the most part everything looks top notch.
Can you post a larger image so we may see more of the detail you've put in? wire-frame overlay would be great too.
What polycount are you aiming for?
As for the guns, I would say it really depends on the intended scale of the model ingame. If your going for a straight up replacement for the current in-game battlecruiser I recommend leaving what you have. even if you bump up the geo slightly, its going to be multiplied by the number of cannons.
It looks good, you should look into adding turrets perhaps. That way the cannons will move and target units if the user configures the battlecruiser right.
Some suggestions:
First, you import the original SC II Battlecruiser.
Examine the original SC II Textures(diffuse, specular, emissive, alpha mask, normal map).
Next problem is the vertex number, no more than 6K. Use a smooth group, reducing the number of vertex.
It looks good, you should look into adding turrets perhaps. That way the cannons will move and target units if the user configures the battlecruiser right.
This interested me, is that possible?
Now I think that "Turret_Z" does not work on air units.
Always great seeing active modelers on the boards.
This. Also, I think you might want to look into simply making the model a bit bigger than the regular cruiser - I think that's the main feat of minotaur classes.
Nice looking model though as has been suggested I would suggest looking at the existing in game model to make it fit in more with the style.
Also, something more nitpicky: The StarCraft 2 in game Battlecruiser actually is the Minotaur class. The cinematic one (the Hyperion and some Dominion ships) are Behemoth class - SC1 era Battlecruisers though with the look updated a bit since SC1 to add more details such as the turbines and turrets and such. The Behemoth seems to be about twice the size of the Minotaur going by a few in game cinematics in WoL which has the game model side by side with the cinematic model.
@Kanitala: Go Kanitala always pointing out the specifics of SC universe models lol. I plan to release some doodads I hope you don't understand about SC universe's furniture XD
A lot of that is actually on the StarCraft wiki. Problem with Battlecruiser classes is that their names are so generic I always forget which one is which. Minotaur, Behemoth, Leviathan, Hercules, Gorgon...
Edit: Speaking of which, I think Kanitala is actually wrong. The Leviathan is the oldest which was used in SC1 and the Brood wars. The Behemoth was developped afterwards and those are the bread-and-butter cruisers you use in SC2. Minotaurs are basically 'strong Behemoths'; think Hyperion or Bucephalus. If I'm reading the wikia right, anyway.
Edit: Then again, it would make sense for ships like the Hyperion to be 'updated' SC1-era cruisers, looking at when Raynor got it. I'm confused now.
Leviathan-class are old model BCs, they never appeared in game. Some books say there were Leviathans around during SC1, but the main used one was the Behemoth (SC1 manual described the Behemoth as the basic BC). Hyperion is a behemoth. SC2 brings the Minotaur, and the model seen in game is a Minotaur, but the cinematic ones are Behemoths as they represent the Hyperion. The Bucephalus is a Gorgon-class, a new type, biggest there is.
Minotaurs have that elevated bridge, in game they have more HP, and their attack is different. We know nothing about the gorgon appearance, as the bucephalus uses the same model used for the Hyperion in the cinematics. The Leviathan class is also mostly unknown. It makes sense they didn't have the Yamato Cannon as it was an inprovement created for the Behemoth type and not all of them had it.
We could go on discussing all the specifics but we do it every time someone talks about BC models. Be careful of what the wikia says, read the info on each type of BC, but I think the general page for BCs is a little confusing.
@YoLoCo: Go Welcome to mapster, you can see some of us like to discuss the details around SC lore :-)
Now back to your model: It looks really good, but a Behemoth, not a Minotaur. I think you can ignore all the discussion here and simply make it a good-looking BC. You could use the in game textures at least on parts of your model, that would make it blend with the original models better.
It would definitely be a better model for the Hyperion than the one used for it in that last Mar Sara mission, which was basically a bigger minoteur.
Well Filcher explained it heh. And much of my knowledge of SC comes from the books and having read the SC1 manual hundreds of times back in the day heh. The StarCraft wiki is still pretty good source though aye, though I don't think they always get some things right and sometimes make questionable leaps of logic but ah well.
I seem to recall from the SC manual that the Behemoth was literally the older Leviathan classes retrofitted with Yamatos so the SC1 BC was kind of both the Leviathan AND the Behemoth class. That was years ago though so I'm not sure.
Of course, in the novels there's comments about the Hyperion itself being not completely standard Battlecruiser as it was Mengst's flagship, though that was more things like bigger corridors, more ostentacious quarters (well, state room for Mengst and such) this carries over in SC2 with the fancy carvings and stuff seen about the Hyperion.
As for the Behemoth/Minotaur debate, I seem to think from what I've pieced together from memories of SC1 and stuff about the Minotaur I got the impression that the Behemoth wasn't originally designed for use in orbital conflicts per se but got forced into that role during the Great War and the Brood Wars, whereas the Minotaur was designed with ground support in mind - hence the smaller size and weapons not being concentrated almost entirely in the hammerhead.
But I digress.
SoulFilcher> It should be obvious by now I take my lore very seriously :p as for SC furniature... hmm I'll get back to you ;P. Only time I can really remember any descriptions coming up much are StarCraft Ghost: Nova and the Dark Templar trilogy as they featured stuff in more civilian areas ;P
The current polycount is 6796 tris. I'd like to get it closer to 6k. You're correct; right now I'm aiming for an in-game replacement for the current BC. My hope is to get a result that looks like something bliz might have produced, or at the least one of their interns! Maybe Zedu could use it as a BC variant for the StarBattle mod on the arcade? :p
Here is a closer view of the model on default lighting. It looks like Max is the package I'd have to use because of the plugins for exporting for the editor, but I'm about 1000% more comfortable modeling in Maya, so for the remainder of the art phase i'll be using that package.
Somewhat tangential but maybe not, here are some AO renders of a high-poly version of the same ship class I'm working on, which as SoulFilcher pointed out, is actually Behemoth and not Minotaur. This puppy is at about 1,236,011 tris. I can take a screen of the wire after a comp reboot. If I open this file now my PC will 'splode.
Thanks for clearing the class issue up, I'm usually pretty good about nerdy specifics like that but not this time! As for the texturing, I could probably benefit from using the actual BC diffuse in parts. I think my texture is only around 50% done in terms of the diffuse. I'm playing around with the larger plating shapes and seeing how they hold up when viewed from far away, but I still have considerable surface to cover, especially in the rear bulk and engines. Initially the texture covered a lot more of the surface but was made up of noisy little details that looked muddy when viewed from far away.
Model with what you're comfortable with, because it's fairly simple to transfer models across different packages. I primarily model in Maya and bring models over to Max for rigging/setup/export.
I would stick to things like rigging and animation in Max, although it's possible to do this in Maya and convert through FBX. It's a bit of a trial-and-error process to get animations working perfectly though. Modelling and Texturing can be done in any program you choose though, it's only a matter of getting things scaled correctly in Max once you're done and applying the textures using the SC2 shaders.
For the Textures: You already have alot of the information in the High-poly, I would suggest trying a projection of the AO from the high-poly to the low-poly. Even though there are a few areas that are radically different (the neck of the ship for example) It might help for the silhouettes of the plate pieces. You can play around gaussian blur, sponge, and some of the other photoshop filters to reduce the noise and see what shapes stand out.
Hey All,
I'm new to the forum and the map editor in general. Right now I'm attempting to create an in-game version of the Minotaur class BC you see in the cut scenes. I'm texturing it right now, but thinking I might re-model the gun geo since I'm not really feeling it in hindsight. I'd really love any constructive feedback the community could provide since this is my first model in the blizzard style.
@YoLoCo: Go
Hello! Welcome to Sc2Mapster!
Always great seeing active modelers on the boards.
For the most part everything looks top notch.
Can you post a larger image so we may see more of the detail you've put in? wire-frame overlay would be great too.
What polycount are you aiming for?
As for the guns, I would say it really depends on the intended scale of the model ingame. If your going for a straight up replacement for the current in-game battlecruiser I recommend leaving what you have. even if you bump up the geo slightly, its going to be multiplied by the number of cannons.
Formally Kinkycactus
It looks good, you should look into adding turrets perhaps. That way the cannons will move and target units if the user configures the battlecruiser right.
The model is very beautiful!!!
Some suggestions: First, you import the original SC II Battlecruiser. Examine the original SC II Textures(diffuse, specular, emissive, alpha mask, normal map).
Next problem is the vertex number, no more than 6K. Use a smooth group, reducing the number of vertex.
This interested me, is that possible? Now I think that "Turret_Z" does not work on air units.
you're very good. pretty amazing model.
This. Also, I think you might want to look into simply making the model a bit bigger than the regular cruiser - I think that's the main feat of minotaur classes.
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Nice looking model though as has been suggested I would suggest looking at the existing in game model to make it fit in more with the style.
Also, something more nitpicky: The StarCraft 2 in game Battlecruiser actually is the Minotaur class. The cinematic one (the Hyperion and some Dominion ships) are Behemoth class - SC1 era Battlecruisers though with the look updated a bit since SC1 to add more details such as the turbines and turrets and such. The Behemoth seems to be about twice the size of the Minotaur going by a few in game cinematics in WoL which has the game model side by side with the cinematic model.
Nitpick rant over ^_^
@Kanitala: Go Kanitala always pointing out the specifics of SC universe models lol. I plan to release some doodads I hope you don't understand about SC universe's furniture XD
@SoulFilcher: Go
A lot of that is actually on the StarCraft wiki. Problem with Battlecruiser classes is that their names are so generic I always forget which one is which. Minotaur, Behemoth, Leviathan, Hercules, Gorgon...
Edit: Speaking of which, I think Kanitala is actually wrong. The Leviathan is the oldest which was used in SC1 and the Brood wars. The Behemoth was developped afterwards and those are the bread-and-butter cruisers you use in SC2. Minotaurs are basically 'strong Behemoths'; think Hyperion or Bucephalus. If I'm reading the wikia right, anyway.
Edit: Then again, it would make sense for ships like the Hyperion to be 'updated' SC1-era cruisers, looking at when Raynor got it. I'm confused now.
@Mozared: Go
Look at the bottom it says which battlecruisers are what class, the Hyperion is a Behemoth and Helios is a Minotaur. So that would mean:
Cinematic model -> Behemoth, ingame model -> Minotaur... if i'm reading it right.
@Mozared: Go
@SheogorathSC: Go
Leviathan-class are old model BCs, they never appeared in game. Some books say there were Leviathans around during SC1, but the main used one was the Behemoth (SC1 manual described the Behemoth as the basic BC). Hyperion is a behemoth. SC2 brings the Minotaur, and the model seen in game is a Minotaur, but the cinematic ones are Behemoths as they represent the Hyperion. The Bucephalus is a Gorgon-class, a new type, biggest there is.
Minotaurs have that elevated bridge, in game they have more HP, and their attack is different. We know nothing about the gorgon appearance, as the bucephalus uses the same model used for the Hyperion in the cinematics. The Leviathan class is also mostly unknown. It makes sense they didn't have the Yamato Cannon as it was an inprovement created for the Behemoth type and not all of them had it.
We could go on discussing all the specifics but we do it every time someone talks about BC models. Be careful of what the wikia says, read the info on each type of BC, but I think the general page for BCs is a little confusing.
@YoLoCo: Go Welcome to mapster, you can see some of us like to discuss the details around SC lore :-) Now back to your model: It looks really good, but a Behemoth, not a Minotaur. I think you can ignore all the discussion here and simply make it a good-looking BC. You could use the in game textures at least on parts of your model, that would make it blend with the original models better.
It would definitely be a better model for the Hyperion than the one used for it in that last Mar Sara mission, which was basically a bigger minoteur.
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Good models except the rear looks rather shiney and smooth lacking any detail.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
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Well Filcher explained it heh. And much of my knowledge of SC comes from the books and having read the SC1 manual hundreds of times back in the day heh. The StarCraft wiki is still pretty good source though aye, though I don't think they always get some things right and sometimes make questionable leaps of logic but ah well. I seem to recall from the SC manual that the Behemoth was literally the older Leviathan classes retrofitted with Yamatos so the SC1 BC was kind of both the Leviathan AND the Behemoth class. That was years ago though so I'm not sure.
Of course, in the novels there's comments about the Hyperion itself being not completely standard Battlecruiser as it was Mengst's flagship, though that was more things like bigger corridors, more ostentacious quarters (well, state room for Mengst and such) this carries over in SC2 with the fancy carvings and stuff seen about the Hyperion.
As for the Behemoth/Minotaur debate, I seem to think from what I've pieced together from memories of SC1 and stuff about the Minotaur I got the impression that the Behemoth wasn't originally designed for use in orbital conflicts per se but got forced into that role during the Great War and the Brood Wars, whereas the Minotaur was designed with ground support in mind - hence the smaller size and weapons not being concentrated almost entirely in the hammerhead.
But I digress.
SoulFilcher> It should be obvious by now I take my lore very seriously :p as for SC furniature... hmm I'll get back to you ;P. Only time I can really remember any descriptions coming up much are StarCraft Ghost: Nova and the Dark Templar trilogy as they featured stuff in more civilian areas ;P
@ZombieZasz: Go
The current polycount is 6796 tris. I'd like to get it closer to 6k. You're correct; right now I'm aiming for an in-game replacement for the current BC. My hope is to get a result that looks like something bliz might have produced, or at the least one of their interns! Maybe Zedu could use it as a BC variant for the StarBattle mod on the arcade? :p
Here is a closer view of the model on default lighting. It looks like Max is the package I'd have to use because of the plugins for exporting for the editor, but I'm about 1000% more comfortable modeling in Maya, so for the remainder of the art phase i'll be using that package.
Somewhat tangential but maybe not, here are some AO renders of a high-poly version of the same ship class I'm working on, which as SoulFilcher pointed out, is actually Behemoth and not Minotaur. This puppy is at about 1,236,011 tris. I can take a screen of the wire after a comp reboot. If I open this file now my PC will 'splode.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Thanks for clearing the class issue up, I'm usually pretty good about nerdy specifics like that but not this time! As for the texturing, I could probably benefit from using the actual BC diffuse in parts. I think my texture is only around 50% done in terms of the diffuse. I'm playing around with the larger plating shapes and seeing how they hold up when viewed from far away, but I still have considerable surface to cover, especially in the rear bulk and engines. Initially the texture covered a lot more of the surface but was made up of noisy little details that looked muddy when viewed from far away.
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Curse PremiumModel with what you're comfortable with, because it's fairly simple to transfer models across different packages. I primarily model in Maya and bring models over to Max for rigging/setup/export.
I would stick to things like rigging and animation in Max, although it's possible to do this in Maya and convert through FBX. It's a bit of a trial-and-error process to get animations working perfectly though. Modelling and Texturing can be done in any program you choose though, it's only a matter of getting things scaled correctly in Max once you're done and applying the textures using the SC2 shaders.
@YoLoCo: Go
I wrote a tutorial a while back for switching between Maya and Max http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/31112-how-to-maya-to-3ds-max-to-m3/ the last half is irrelevant now since it was originally written for the 3rd party plugins
For the Textures: You already have alot of the information in the High-poly, I would suggest trying a projection of the AO from the high-poly to the low-poly. Even though there are a few areas that are radically different (the neck of the ship for example) It might help for the silhouettes of the plate pieces. You can play around gaussian blur, sponge, and some of the other photoshop filters to reduce the noise and see what shapes stand out.
Formally Kinkycactus
This will be the hardest. It is likely not deal with you.
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What am I, chopped liver? :P
Loving how the model is coming along :)