1) How do I make an Orange normal map? I use GIMP and I am aware like Photoshop it has a plugin to turn an image into a normal map. The normal map is Orange and I want to make mine too (inverting colors makes it pink not the same effect). [SOLVED]
2) do you know why I can't use different DDS for Specular and Normal? - I select the DDS for Diffuse and it auto applies to Map #1 and that applies to Specular and Normal, doesn't allow me to browse other files for Specular and Norm [SOLVED]
3) The model has transparent parts! This is the problem I need solved the most among the 4 questions:(I have Backface Cull NOT ticked as it is by default. If I tick Backface Cull the same can be seen in 3Ds Max as well.. see 4) [SOLVED]
4) Why do I get this uber UGLY shadow cast upon the Perspective view? [SOLVED]
I haven't had much opportunity to play around with the 3ds Max export plugins yet, but the artifacts/holes you're experiencing look like they're being caused by inverted face normals. I suggest you try to add a "normal" modifier and click the "unify normals" button. If that doesn't work, then it's probably a problem with your geometry. Make sure all of your faces share common edges and that there are no double vertices.
To make them "orange" it is really nothing complex.
What you have to do is go to "channels" Not really sure how to do it in the gimp so I'll just describe the process we do in photoshop.
Go to channels and copy the red channel into the alpha channel (if the texture doesn't have an alpha channel then make one)
Then fill the red channel with pure white
Now fill the blue channel with pure black.
Done.
As to your other problems, the model obviously has normal issues. You can see it in both ingame and in 3ds max, that's why it seems all shadowy and obscure, Try applying a "normal" modifier in 3ds max and select the option "unify normals" If that doesn't work then prepare yourself to embrace the titanic task of manually flipping all the wrong sided polygons :P
Not sure what's happening with max tripling your maps, maybe, for some reason, the maps are being instanced instead of being copied to or just added.
The holes in your model in game are most likely related to the normals issues your model has. So when you fix them your model will no longer present these holes.
If it's not that, it is most likely due to bones and animations on the model. get back in the topic if you have any animations that could be messing up. The exporter is still a little bit touchy with regards to animations and bone scaling.
Yes it is supposed to be ^_^ (arrg they need to change these forum codes cant type ^ ^ without becoming a superscript).. im just testing with an open source model. Someone could make decent models and some Pony racing game :>
Ok, for the Normal map, when I goto Channels I see Greyscale Box for Red, Green, Blue and White Box for Alpha. I think the 'copy the red channel into the alpha channel' is not possible. The options you get ther are create a selection frm the channel, add to selection, remove from selection, move up/down, duplicate, delete channel (n/a). So far I did something by using the blue normal texture I did with the plugin and changing the color to make it orange but yeah I was asking for a better way to do it like with channels. I will ask someone with gimp I guess.
Biggest prob is the faces:
I select all, choose Normal modifier and tick both Unify Normals and Flip Normals. While it unhides some transparent parts, now other parts became transparent. So with Flip Normals it unhid some of the hidden face but hid others.
I also tried: I selected the mesh in Editable Mesh instead of adding Normal modifier, there I click Poly or Element then Edit> Select All then from the Editable Mesh I use Flip or Unify - what happens is more parts are revealed but other holes appear in other places of the model..
I enable Backface Cull just to see the holes in 3ds max, there are no holes in 3ds max if Backface Cull is unchecked (but the holes DO appear in sc2 either way) and when I export I also leave it unticked. But as you can see every time I do Flip/Unify some faces that were holes are now correct but holes appear in other places..
You mean that your program doesn't let you to "select all" and press delete key or ctrl + c?
That'd instantly make it a REALLY bad program which I doubt the gimp is.
Just select the red channel, with select all (usually ctrl + a hotkey) and copy that into the alpha with ctrl + c and ctrl + v. When you need to delete a channel just select it all and press delete.
That's how I do it in photoshop as well. And if I just need to fill it with either black or white I select all and press the "delete" key to delete the "grayscale" image you see and paint with black or white. Pressing a delete button on the program would completely delete the whole channel if I am not mistaken.
BTW they aren't really grayscale images, they're mask containing how much of that color does the image have. where white is the most they can have of the color in the channel and black is nothing.
^ I'll have to look into it because I still think all you can do is like I said above selections, create selection from channel if I create selection from red and turn white, then create selection from blue turn black, it changes color but doesnt become like this here.
Hey obviously by what in another place they also told me, flipping works. But if I select the whole model and use a Modifier to flip face, it restores the missing faces that are backfaced but hides others. So I have to select only those that are backfaced and flip them. Is there a way to select backfaced faces only? Like is there a way to isolate those that are pointing outward (i,e normal visible faces) with those pointing inward (i.e i.e backfaces showing their back outward which makes them invisible)?
I started manually flipping/unhiding faces and it also solves the problem with black shadow which is also backface, that's why the blackness. There, where it's black, there is a backface, when I flip, the black disappears. Anyway to the upper paragraph question..
Thanks for the link! I was looking for such but I only searched Tutorials with no good tutorial on how to model and texture and I didnt even expect it is placed here. I will use it for future reference but here:
• Copy the red channel and paste it into alpha. - I dont think GIMP can do it, it has more limited options than photoshop, unless I dont know something.
Like I said, I started manually flipping those backfaces to show and I restored the model except for small triangles I dont see. If there is a way to unhide all faces like selecting those backfaces, would be great (because selecting the whole model/all faces just to flip the backfaces causes some normal faces to become backfaces that is invisible)
Now I have this Problem - I used Edit Poly Modifier with which I flipped faces 1 by 1, now I cant export file to M3 as it says, ERROR: Mesh Operation on Non-Mesh: Editable Mesh, YES my Edit Poly is treed with Editable Mesh. So Is there a way to fix it? Of course if backfaced faces could be isolated and selected as I ask, that would be best and I would be able to flip all even small faces thay I dont see..
the data of the flipped faces, so that I dont have to start flipping faces again? Of course if there is a method to flip the backfaces properlym that would be better, since I would then flip all backfaces back to normal.
I haven't worked much in GIMP, but my first impression is that it's not exactly very intuitive or user friendly to say the least. Anyway, I think I was able to figure out how to fix your normal map.
Add an alpha channel if you haven't already, and then go to Colors > Components > Decompose. Pick RGBA in the Color Model dropdown and make sure the "Decompose to layers" box is checked. This should open a new image which is basically your old image, except the channels have been converted into layers which you can now manipulate. Paste the red layer into the alpha channel. It will create a floating selection which you will have to anchor with Ctrl + H. Make the rest of the adjustments to your red and blue layer, and then go back to Colors > Components> Recompose. It should change your layers back into channels and you will (hopefully) have a normal map ready to import into the SC2 editor.
Now, why you can't just copy from one channel to another in GIMP is beyond me.
As for your normal problem, I can't really think of a solution other than manually flipping faces if the Normal modifier didn't work. But you should be able to apply the Normal modifier which will allow you to export.
Just rightclick > Collapse all before exporting.
As for hiding faces, there was a trick, but I don't remember it atm. Just detach pieces of the mesh so it's easier to work with and once done - reattach and put a welder mod on top.
Copying red layer onto the Alpha layer works unlike trying to copy channels, and I anchored it. I turn the entire Red layer into white, the entire Blue layer into Blackm I dont do anything with green and this is the effect.
And Im still open for a way to select only those invisible backfaces if there is a way, so that I can flip all at a time as 1 by 1 you never will see all hidden faces. Selecting the whole model or all faces would cause you to fix some faces but other disappear so yes I have to select only invisible.
Everywhere I go, people seem to start modelling ponies for use in-game rather than actual in-game models that are related to the game or for an actual mod/map.
Am I missing something? I can't seem to grasp this My Little Pony hype...
ANYWAY, I just wish Blizzard would release their art tools already, because it's so hard to properly get a model working in the game. All kinds of weird shadow bugs and meshes disappearing and what not. It's sad, really. =(
All the art tools would be are exporting scripts, which we already have. It's not going to get much easier in terms of bugs and troubleshooting. The problem stems from lack of information on how to use standard 3D mediums, such as use of normal maps, animating models and creating attachments.
I love how people think that Blizzard's Art Tools will be some magic cure to some mythical disease that doesn't exist. They're going to be tools, and with any new tool you're not familiar with, there will be problems to figure out along the way. Look at the editor right now, with all its great potential it still lacks proper documentation. Luckily the community is providing some helpful tutorials. The same holds here for model creation, the tool we have available is enough to get models fully working in game, we just need to learn to use the methods properly.
Ok back to my thread... so I learnt I had to Convert Edit Poly to Editable Mesh, seems that is why it exported M3 as only 2KB, it needs Editable Mesh to export with the correct size.
I flipped the faces 1 by 1 to restore/fill the model. However, there are maybe tens of little triangles or even bigger parts that I do not see. So let me know if anyone knows a way to select all Hidden Backfaces (those that appear like holes in your model) so that you can select all hidden and flip them to ensure you don't miss any faces. Because 1 by 1 you will miss and won't see the many faces that are still hidden or hard to select.
For 1) http://www.galaxywiki.net/Custom_Terrain_Textures#Normal_Mapping This says how to turn into Orange Map both with Photoshop and with GIMP (*more difficult) anyway wooho found it. Im so lame, with GIMP the Decompose method like Default_String explained it didnt work for me cause I firstly had to make the normal Blue map and from it make the decompose, not from the full color diffuse:)
For 2) I just had to restart Map #1 and choose Bitman again, then after restarting for all 3 browsing the Specular, Normal, Diffuse in each of the field. I had to add material to Scene to make the M3 contain diffuse, normal and specular in its paths or if not added to Scene it will still use only 1 texture even if I select the specular and normal ones.
I think the method explained to you on the GIMP forums that I saw might be easier; I'll give it a go and maybe add it to the wiki, unless you get their first ;0
The one with channels? I didnt even understand it The one with RGBA and decomposing to Layers then recomposing is the easiest way. You should add that one with Layers, I think. All that I didn't do is the whole thing had to be made after making the blue normal map because from normal image it wouldn't turn into orange normal if it is not made normal blue at first. And GIMP has a plugin to turn into blue normal map.
1) How do I make an Orange normal map? I use GIMP and I am aware like Photoshop it has a plugin to turn an image into a normal map. The normal map is Orange and I want to make mine too (inverting colors makes it pink not the same effect).[SOLVED]2) do you know why I can't use different DDS for Specular and Normal? - I select the DDS for Diffuse and it auto applies to Map #1 and that applies to Specular and Normal, doesn't allow me to browse other files for Specular and Norm[SOLVED]3) The model has transparent parts! This is the problem I need solved the most among the 4 questions:(I have Backface Cull NOT ticked as it is by default. If I tick Backface Cull the same can be seen in 3Ds Max as well.. see 4)[SOLVED]4) Why do I get this uber UGLY shadow cast upon the Perspective view?[SOLVED]Hey, is that Fluttershy?
I haven't had much opportunity to play around with the 3ds Max export plugins yet, but the artifacts/holes you're experiencing look like they're being caused by inverted face normals. I suggest you try to add a "normal" modifier and click the "unify normals" button. If that doesn't work, then it's probably a problem with your geometry. Make sure all of your faces share common edges and that there are no double vertices.
No they weren't. They've always been orange.
To make them "orange" it is really nothing complex.
What you have to do is go to "channels" Not really sure how to do it in the gimp so I'll just describe the process we do in photoshop. Go to channels and copy the red channel into the alpha channel (if the texture doesn't have an alpha channel then make one) Then fill the red channel with pure white Now fill the blue channel with pure black.
Done.
As to your other problems, the model obviously has normal issues. You can see it in both ingame and in 3ds max, that's why it seems all shadowy and obscure, Try applying a "normal" modifier in 3ds max and select the option "unify normals" If that doesn't work then prepare yourself to embrace the titanic task of manually flipping all the wrong sided polygons :P
Not sure what's happening with max tripling your maps, maybe, for some reason, the maps are being instanced instead of being copied to or just added.
The holes in your model in game are most likely related to the normals issues your model has. So when you fix them your model will no longer present these holes. If it's not that, it is most likely due to bones and animations on the model. get back in the topic if you have any animations that could be messing up. The exporter is still a little bit touchy with regards to animations and bone scaling.
Yes it is supposed to be ^_^ (arrg they need to change these forum codes cant type ^ ^ without becoming a superscript).. im just testing with an open source model. Someone could make decent models and some Pony racing game :>
Ok, for the Normal map, when I goto Channels I see Greyscale Box for Red, Green, Blue and White Box for Alpha. I think the 'copy the red channel into the alpha channel' is not possible. The options you get ther are create a selection frm the channel, add to selection, remove from selection, move up/down, duplicate, delete channel (n/a). So far I did something by using the blue normal texture I did with the plugin and changing the color to make it orange but yeah I was asking for a better way to do it like with channels. I will ask someone with gimp I guess.
Biggest prob is the faces: I select all, choose Normal modifier and tick both Unify Normals and Flip Normals. While it unhides some transparent parts, now other parts became transparent. So with Flip Normals it unhid some of the hidden face but hid others.
I also tried: I selected the mesh in Editable Mesh instead of adding Normal modifier, there I click Poly or Element then Edit> Select All then from the Editable Mesh I use Flip or Unify - what happens is more parts are revealed but other holes appear in other places of the model..
I enable Backface Cull just to see the holes in 3ds max, there are no holes in 3ds max if Backface Cull is unchecked (but the holes DO appear in sc2 either way) and when I export I also leave it unticked. But as you can see every time I do Flip/Unify some faces that were holes are now correct but holes appear in other places..
You mean that your program doesn't let you to "select all" and press delete key or ctrl + c? That'd instantly make it a REALLY bad program which I doubt the gimp is.
Just select the red channel, with select all (usually ctrl + a hotkey) and copy that into the alpha with ctrl + c and ctrl + v. When you need to delete a channel just select it all and press delete.
That's how I do it in photoshop as well. And if I just need to fill it with either black or white I select all and press the "delete" key to delete the "grayscale" image you see and paint with black or white. Pressing a delete button on the program would completely delete the whole channel if I am not mistaken.
BTW they aren't really grayscale images, they're mask containing how much of that color does the image have. where white is the most they can have of the color in the channel and black is nothing.
^ I'll have to look into it because I still think all you can do is like I said above selections, create selection from channel if I create selection from red and turn white, then create selection from blue turn black, it changes color but doesnt become like this here.
Hey obviously by what in another place they also told me, flipping works. But if I select the whole model and use a Modifier to flip face, it restores the missing faces that are backfaced but hides others. So I have to select only those that are backfaced and flip them. Is there a way to select backfaced faces only? Like is there a way to isolate those that are pointing outward (i,e normal visible faces) with those pointing inward (i.e i.e backfaces showing their back outward which makes them invisible)?
I started manually flipping/unhiding faces and it also solves the problem with black shadow which is also backface, that's why the blackness. There, where it's black, there is a backface, when I flip, the black disappears. Anyway to the upper paragraph question..
Does noone read stickies? ¬_¬
Damn it, people.
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/development/artist-tavern/9662-article-modelling-and-exporting-for-star-craft2/
Also, you might wanna apply a check to the model, make sure the smoothing groups are set properly and all the normals are facing the right way.
Thanks for the link! I was looking for such but I only searched Tutorials with no good tutorial on how to model and texture and I didnt even expect it is placed here. I will use it for future reference but here:
• Copy the red channel and paste it into alpha. - I dont think GIMP can do it, it has more limited options than photoshop, unless I dont know something.
Like I said, I started manually flipping those backfaces to show and I restored the model except for small triangles I dont see. If there is a way to unhide all faces like selecting those backfaces, would be great (because selecting the whole model/all faces just to flip the backfaces causes some normal faces to become backfaces that is invisible)
Now I have this Problem - I used Edit Poly Modifier with which I flipped faces 1 by 1, now I cant export file to M3 as it says, ERROR: Mesh Operation on Non-Mesh: Editable Mesh, YES my Edit Poly is treed with Editable Mesh. So Is there a way to fix it? Of course if backfaced faces could be isolated and selected as I ask, that would be best and I would be able to flip all even small faces thay I dont see.. the data of the flipped faces, so that I dont have to start flipping faces again? Of course if there is a method to flip the backfaces properlym that would be better, since I would then flip all backfaces back to normal.
I haven't worked much in GIMP, but my first impression is that it's not exactly very intuitive or user friendly to say the least. Anyway, I think I was able to figure out how to fix your normal map.
Add an alpha channel if you haven't already, and then go to Colors > Components > Decompose. Pick RGBA in the Color Model dropdown and make sure the "Decompose to layers" box is checked. This should open a new image which is basically your old image, except the channels have been converted into layers which you can now manipulate. Paste the red layer into the alpha channel. It will create a floating selection which you will have to anchor with Ctrl + H. Make the rest of the adjustments to your red and blue layer, and then go back to Colors > Components> Recompose. It should change your layers back into channels and you will (hopefully) have a normal map ready to import into the SC2 editor.
Now, why you can't just copy from one channel to another in GIMP is beyond me.
As for your normal problem, I can't really think of a solution other than manually flipping faces if the Normal modifier didn't work. But you should be able to apply the Normal modifier which will allow you to export.
Just rightclick > Collapse all before exporting.
As for hiding faces, there was a trick, but I don't remember it atm. Just detach pieces of the mesh so it's easier to work with and once done - reattach and put a welder mod on top.
^Thx for the tip, did that but now export shows model 3KB (i clicked collapse all on the Edit Poly) - that means it is empty M3.
@Default_String: Go
Copying red layer onto the Alpha layer works unlike trying to copy channels, and I anchored it. I turn the entire Red layer into white, the entire Blue layer into Blackm I dont do anything with green and this is the effect.
And Im still open for a way to select only those invisible backfaces if there is a way, so that I can flip all at a time as 1 by 1 you never will see all hidden faces. Selecting the whole model or all faces would cause you to fix some faces but other disappear so yes I have to select only invisible.
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Curse PremiumEverywhere I go, people seem to start modelling ponies for use in-game rather than actual in-game models that are related to the game or for an actual mod/map.
Am I missing something? I can't seem to grasp this My Little Pony hype...
ANYWAY, I just wish Blizzard would release their art tools already, because it's so hard to properly get a model working in the game. All kinds of weird shadow bugs and meshes disappearing and what not. It's sad, really. =(
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Curse Premium@ Alex06
All the art tools would be are exporting scripts, which we already have. It's not going to get much easier in terms of bugs and troubleshooting. The problem stems from lack of information on how to use standard 3D mediums, such as use of normal maps, animating models and creating attachments.
I love how people think that Blizzard's Art Tools will be some magic cure to some mythical disease that doesn't exist. They're going to be tools, and with any new tool you're not familiar with, there will be problems to figure out along the way. Look at the editor right now, with all its great potential it still lacks proper documentation. Luckily the community is providing some helpful tutorials. The same holds here for model creation, the tool we have available is enough to get models fully working in game, we just need to learn to use the methods properly.
@Triceron: Go
exporter scripts with proper particle support, ribbons, lights, etc etc?
gibe plz
blizzard art tools are deeply desired.
Ok back to my thread... so I learnt I had to Convert Edit Poly to Editable Mesh, seems that is why it exported M3 as only 2KB, it needs Editable Mesh to export with the correct size.
I flipped the faces 1 by 1 to restore/fill the model. However, there are maybe tens of little triangles or even bigger parts that I do not see. So let me know if anyone knows a way to select all Hidden Backfaces (those that appear like holes in your model) so that you can select all hidden and flip them to ensure you don't miss any faces. Because 1 by 1 you will miss and won't see the many faces that are still hidden or hard to select.
For 1) http://www.galaxywiki.net/Custom_Terrain_Textures#Normal_Mapping This says how to turn into Orange Map both with Photoshop and with GIMP (*more difficult) anyway wooho found it. Im so lame, with GIMP the Decompose method like Default_String explained it didnt work for me cause I firstly had to make the normal Blue map and from it make the decompose, not from the full color diffuse :)
For 2) I just had to restart Map #1 and choose Bitman again, then after restarting for all 3 browsing the Specular, Normal, Diffuse in each of the field. I had to add material to Scene to make the M3 contain diffuse, normal and specular in its paths or if not added to Scene it will still use only 1 texture even if I select the specular and normal ones.
I think the method explained to you on the GIMP forums that I saw might be easier; I'll give it a go and maybe add it to the wiki, unless you get their first ;0
The one with channels? I didnt even understand it The one with RGBA and decomposing to Layers then recomposing is the easiest way. You should add that one with Layers, I think. All that I didn't do is the whole thing had to be made after making the blue normal map because from normal image it wouldn't turn into orange normal if it is not made normal blue at first. And GIMP has a plugin to turn into blue normal map.